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To: yankeedame
Mr. Journalist, I don't care if your name is Chinese but you,sir, are wrong.

1) As far back as almost anyone can trace it was the Chinese who refereed to themselves as the "Middle Kingdom", and it nothing to do with the middle location on the flat and square earth. It refereed to the belief -- by the Chinese -- that their land was the middle kingdom between heaven and earth.

2) "Actually, the name has another, more accurate interpretation that has escaped Western observers: China also means central state." Again, wrong.The word China does not mean "[the]central state". It comes from Ch'in Shih Huang Ti, First August Emperor of the Ch'in Dynasty. The first ruler (back in 200 B.C.) the at conquered/unified a good part of what we now know as China.

Cheeze louise! I hate to make a big deal out of this, but this character muffs this basic stuff this bad right out of the gate....

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I think what he was trying to say was that the English translation of the word "Zhong Guo", which is almost always "Middle Kingdom", gives the inappropriate connotation. The word "middle", just like the character "zhong", is very vague in the sense that we have to ask, "in the middle of what?". Without knowing Chinese history, most people would interpret middle in the sense of "top-middle-bottom" or "left-middle-right" and not "middle vs. periphery". In this case, "middle" is in the sense of "middle vs. periphery" and refers to the traditional Chinese concept of "middle of the civilized world". Thus, "zhong" is better translated as "central", a more specific word that always gives the correct connotation of "middle vs. periphery".

Regrading point 2, I think he meant to say "[the Chinese word for] China also means central state". I don't think anyone would argue with the fact that the English word "China" was derived ultimately from the name of the Chinese emperor.

18 posted on 07/18/2004 10:03:14 AM PDT by spam_bank
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To: spam_bank; yankeedame
Thank you for clearing that up on my behalf, spam_bank.

I was trying to figure out how clarify what I meant in a manner that didn't involve invoking Unicode, which would mean that whatever I did would probably display improperly on the browsers of most US readers.

After learning a bit of spoken Cantonese for a trip to China, I've started studying Mandarin out of the belief that WHEN Communism falls in China (the use of WHEN and not IF is deliberate) the opportunities for round-eyes who speak Mandarin will be significant indeed.

Although I must confess that I am a poor student indeed.

19 posted on 07/19/2004 10:24:19 AM PDT by George Smiley (It amazes me how easily John Kerry can straddle both sides of the fence for any given issue.)
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To: spam_bank

spam_bank: I am from Beijing China. U are right to figure out the Chinese word "zhong" in " zhong guo" has the connotation in the sense of "middle-peripheral".

i would like to add some other words with which we call ourselves as a people collectively and/or state.

-Hua Xia
-Zhong Hua
-Yan & Huang's descendents (verbatim: sons and grandsons=descendents.

all this words come with history and cultural attachment.


20 posted on 07/19/2004 2:48:37 PM PDT by JamesTi
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