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To: sukhoi-30mki; razoroccam
Russia is melding simple economics with balanced geo-politic stratagems.

For example: It sells the SU-30 to China and India (both nations are not exactly bossom buds), sells tanks to Pakistan and India (again, don't expect the two to be eating roti and sambusa together anytime soon), and Putin even offered to sell some KILO class D-E subs to Taiwan (via the US), when it sells the same KILO class subs to China! And in all those cases Russia gets serious money.

Now, at first glance it would seem Russia is nothing more than a P.I.M.P and nothing more. But then the geo-political facets come into play if someone looks at the intricacies involved.

For example the Sukhoi sales. The Chinese Su-30 version is the MKK (SU-30MKK). The Indian version is the SU-30MKI. Now, the Indian MKI is far superior to the Chinese MKK, primarily because Russia and India need (or will need) each other in the future as China's power becomes more concrete. Same thing with the tank situation. The sales to India are the best the Russians can do. In some aspects even better than the actual tanks used in the vast majority of the Russian armored forces. Why? Because Russia and India have a very strong agreement. The tanks sold to Pakistan may look similar to the Indian ones, but a fight between India and Pakistan would show some differences. And if we (the US) accepts Putin's offer (to sell KILOs to the US, which would then sell them to Taiwan) one aspect of that sale would be that the KILOs would be outfitted with advanced US sensor suites. The Chinese KILOs are very quiet, but the proposed Taiwanese KILOs (if the deal goes through) would also be very quiet, but with more advanced sensor and sonar suites.

Hence, Russia gets its coffers filled with cash and currency, and at the same time it still helps allies like India.

Now, it is a balancing act. Especially with China (since China's intellectual capital is increasing in leaps and bounds, and soon they will be able to upgrade the stuff Russia sells them and make it less 'monkey model.') But as long as it lasts it is a very interesting strategy, and one that should work until Russia starts to totally tap into revenues that should start coming from its oil and gas reserves (Russia has 350 billion barrels of the stuff ....50 billion more than Saudi Arabia).

Hence, there is the reason the Indians are not up in arms over the Paki sales.

17 posted on 07/15/2004 9:44:03 AM PDT by spetznaz (Nuclear missiles: The ultimate Phallic symbol.)
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To: spetznaz

Well what u say is exactly correct-but i still don't see the Pakis as a big league Russian arms buyer.What makes India&China(&for that matter Taiwan) attractive customers is that they have more than enuf cash to splurge on weapons-the Pakis dont have that.

Their economy has been on life support for nearly 10years-surviving with handouts from the US,Japan,Saudi Arabia,UAE&its own citizens living in the Gulf.A country like Russia which itself is not overflowing with cash,will not necessarily trust such a nation.
For eg, look at Russia's recent buyers(apart from India&China)-Indonesia,Malaysia,Greece,South Korea,Vietnam,the UAE to name a few-all have decent enough economies.

I can't understand the logic of them buying the T-90 when they operate the T-80(albeit Ukranian variant)-there's not a truckload of difference between the 2&this coupled with Pakistan's own MBT programme makes the chance of 3rd MBT in Paki stables remote.

PS-the one confirmed "weapons"between Pakistan&Russia has been for around 10-15 Mi-17 transport helos.


18 posted on 07/15/2004 10:08:27 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
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To: spetznaz
Russia's foreign military sales came up in a recent Charlie Rose program.
Programs roundtable focus.,,.mostly on Oligarchs..oil..and Putins control.

Russia became #2 last year in foreign weapons sales.
They are in need of modernizing their production sector...so ya..they are at a crossroads now concerning weapons sales as a national return.

Oil/gas sales easily bring in more fiscal return...part of the reason Putin is doing the Tax thingy on Oligarchs and getting state control back in several sectors.
Oligarchs have oil/gas holdings....Putin[The State] owns the pipelines...Putin can turn the tap off if he wishes.

Russia is commited to some 6 Billion in 2005 for their own military....here..upgrading manufacturing - part and parcel of the new weapon systems delivery.

19 posted on 07/15/2004 10:31:23 AM PDT by Light Speed
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To: spetznaz

Very interesting analysis, specially for a 24 year old (won't hold that against you) financial analyst. You may be onto something, but you do need to get your "Samosa" differentiated from "Sambosa", and one doesn't eat Roti with it anyway. Nonetheless, am impressed by your breath of knowledge.
cheers


20 posted on 07/15/2004 11:30:49 AM PDT by razoroccam (read Germs of War to know the real Armageddon)
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