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To: Steel Wolf

If you don't think people are lied to by conservatives then you may be the one with your head in the sand. Conservatives don't have a monopoly on being able to think "with your head, your heart, and your conscience".

I truly do understand why people have been worried about the state of political discourse, especially when it comes to a liberal viewpoint being conveyed in popular media for so long, but rather than realize things are changing in the mainstream media, all of America is becoming more polarized, and would rather listen to those people that espouse their own beliefs. This is bad. How can you really challenge each other if you are coming from such a similar viewpoint?????? Being pro-american, does not mean being so far to the right you can't see the rest of the people anymore. Liberals vote, pay taxes and are as much a part of this country as anyone else........their viewpoint should be heard rather than filtered through so many conservative commentators like Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh.


114 posted on 07/13/2004 9:49:40 AM PDT by Jayhuck (age)
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To: Jayhuck; Steel Wolf
From "Steel Wolf":
Now, into the meat. What purpose do you have in stating this in reference to an article about gay marriage? You can break out your DSMV-IV and recite all day how homosexuality is normal in humans, but what does that have to do with the societal concept of marriage?
You failed to address any of this, while at the same time lamenting the lack of serious political discourse. Can we score that as a "dodge"?
125 posted on 07/13/2004 10:03:35 AM PDT by BMiles2112
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To: Jayhuck
If you don't think people are lied to by conservatives then you may be the one with your head in the sand.

Humans lie, and to think that conservatives always tell the truth is naiive. However, to think that liberals tell the truth more often than conservatives is equally naiive.

Conservatives don't have a monopoly on being able to think "with your head, your heart, and your conscience".

Many 'conservatives' don't think at all. I know a number of conservatives that can't think with all three.

However, I know ZERO liberals that can.

As a person of fomerly very liberal viewpoints, I understand your anger. It's very easy to look at the 'Taliban conservatives' and dismiss all conservatives as neanderthals. I've known smart liberals, passionate liberals, and moral liberals. I've NEVER met one that is all three at once.

This is because to be a liberal, it requires a certain faith about how the world is, and that faith will dictate to you the value of things. Being liberal means being an idealist above anything else, and defining reality in the context of your beliefs.

No matter how much you would like to believe otheriwse, this is not the same as being a realist. A liberal approaches the world with a feeling in his heart of 'this is how things are, now I need to find evidence to prove it'.

I am open to having my mind changed, because I care more about knowing what is right than having been right. That's why many of my views changed, and why I stopped seeing myself as a liberal. I'm still the same compassionate, open, and questioning person I was before, but now I ensure that my opinions are based in fact, supported by history, and in tune with human nature.

Once you are able to honestly say the same, you'll be a better person for it. You may even realize you've been a conservative all along.

138 posted on 07/13/2004 10:15:51 AM PDT by Steel Wolf (What? Bread AND circuses, ... for free?!?)
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To: Jayhuck
I truly do understand why people have been worried about the state of political discourse, especially when it comes to a liberal viewpoint being conveyed in popular media for so long, but rather than realize things are changing in the mainstream media, all of America is becoming more polarized, and would rather listen to those people that espouse their own beliefs. This is bad.

I would agree. We are becoming a more fragmented society, and this trend is exacerbated by the media. The term 'Balkanization' is one that may soon apply in this case. To an extent it already does, in that the country is dividing into 'blue' and 'red' zones.

This is a dangerous and unhealthy trend in any culture, because it means that the fabric that holds the culture together is tearing.

In most cases, however, the damage is unavoidable because it runs across something that neither side is willing or able to compromise on. When a nation is composed of people who are fundamentally different, be they Albanians and Serbs, Hutus and Tutsis, or Confederates and Unionists, conflict is inevitable.

I would agree that this is a very serious problem, but am less sanguine in the idea that we need more understanding of the other side. The problem may be that we understand each other all too well. Americans have had to fight before to settle differences over what kind of country this would be, and we'll likely have to do it again.

How can you really challenge each other if you are coming from such a similar viewpoint??????

There's a world of difference between opinions here, and I've got the flak wounds to prove it. There are a number of liberal ideas that are not discussed because they are simply too frivolous, but step into a war on drugs thread, for instance, and you'll find that FReepers are deeply divided on both the ends and the means.

Being pro-american, does not mean being so far to the right you can't see the rest of the people anymore.

The only people I honestly can't have an intelligent converstation with any more is the Michael Moore left. They are impervious to fact, and will not be either fair or courteous.

Liberals vote, pay taxes and are as much a part of this country as anyone else........their viewpoint should be heard rather than filtered through so many conservative commentators like Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh.

When people are open about how they feel, as opposed to slanting it behind a facade of impartiality, I consider that a virtue. Dan Rather will never come out and say that he presents the news in a liberal slant, but he does. If Rush or Ann does admit it, does that make them more credible, or less?

154 posted on 07/13/2004 10:32:05 AM PDT by Steel Wolf (What? Bread AND circuses, ... for free?!?)
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