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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit
Your statement that American social conservatives want "basically what the Taliban wants" demonstrates an apparent lack of understanding of Christian, particularly evangelical Protestant, theology.

All orthodox Christians recognize that Jesus said to Pilate that "My Kingdom is not of this world." His last command to His disciples recorded in Acts 1 calls for the spread of the Gospel to "the uttermost part of the earth." Christ's personal example, and that followed by the disciples, as evidenced throughout the New Testament, was to spread the Gospel via preaching and witnessing. While there were some unfortunate exceptions to the rule, notably during the Crusades (which, FWIW, were an attempt to recapture formerly Christian lands that had been conquered by the Muslims) and by the Spaniards in Latin America, the Christian faith was spread throughout the world through the means via persuasion and not compulsion.

The Christian Right in America is dominated by evangelical Christians, members of conservative churches, Baptistic, Calvinist, holiness, or charismatic/pentecostal that adhere to orthodox Christian doctrine and believe in Biblical inerrancy. Their religious beliefs come far closer to those of the majority of the Framers of the Constitution than any other religious or philosophical tendency in American society. Most (although not all) of these Christians subscribe to a premillenial view of end-times prophecy, which believes that it will be Jesus Christ Himself, and not any political leader, who will establish a 1000 year Kingdom of God on earth, as Revelation indicates will occur.

Not all Christian conservatives think alike. Many are way too statist for my own liking, rejecting the original intent of the Constitution, economic freedom, or states' rights when a program they support is under consideration. As an example, many Christian conservatives do not support ending Federal involvement in welfare, but argue for "faith based" programs, enabling that their agencies receive a piece of the pie.

However, most of those who protest the agenda of the Christian Right do so from a libertine, "anything goes" mentality. Liberal courts have manufactured a structure of "rights" in the last 40 years: abortion, homosexual marriage, euthanasia, "no fault" divorce, pornography, vagrancy, etc. These "rights" have nothing to do with what the Founders of this republic conceived of as being unalienable rights. These vices had been illegal under Anglo-American common law since medieval times. Before 1960, if you wanted to live in an immoral environment, you left Podunk and moved to places like New Orleans or San Francisco. I hardly think that the pre-1960 state of American culture equates to that of Afghanistan. Those who think so must fear consequences for their lewd behavior.

Liberal courts and elite opinion makers have deprived local governments of the ability to control vice and the will to do so over the last few decades. To a large extent, the nightmare scene in "It's a Wonderful Life" has become true: clean living Bedford Falls has become sleazy Pottersville.

The Christian Right has many flaws. One of them is not their desire to raise American society out of the degradation caused by broken families, sexual perversion, and a jaded, sated population.

56 posted on 07/12/2004 6:18:33 AM PDT by Wallace T.
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To: Wallace T.
Your statement that American social conservatives want "basically what the Taliban wants" demonstrates an apparent lack of understanding of Christian, particularly evangelical Protestant, theology.

All orthodox Christians recognize that Jesus said to Pilate that "My Kingdom is not of this world." His last command to His disciples recorded in Acts 1 calls for the spread of the Gospel to "the uttermost part of the earth." Christ's personal example, and that followed by the disciples, as evidenced throughout the New Testament, was to spread the Gospel via preaching and witnessing. While there were some unfortunate exceptions to the rule, notably during the Crusades (which, FWIW, were an attempt to recapture formerly Christian lands that had been conquered by the Muslims) and by the Spaniards in Latin America, the Christian faith was spread throughout the world through the means via persuasion and not compulsion.

Agreed, but you have to realize that when you attempt to make that faith a political platform, you are talking about ultimately incorporating it into a legislative agenda and if successful, will result in compelling people to support it.

58 posted on 07/12/2004 6:33:05 AM PDT by tacticalogic ( Controlled application of force is the sincerest form of communication.)
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To: Wallace T.
However, most of those who protest the agenda of the Christian Right do so from a libertine, "anything goes" mentality. Liberal courts have manufactured a structure of "rights" in the last 40 years: abortion, homosexual marriage, euthanasia, "no fault" divorce, pornography, vagrancy, etc. These "rights" have nothing to do with what the Founders of this republic conceived of as being unalienable rights. These vices had been illegal under Anglo-American common law since medieval times.

The fact is there are societal and political realities that the extremes of the party refuse to accept.

The far right has similarities to the far left in that legislation and governmental intrutsion seem to be the main responses to what they feel are the problems in our culture.

I firmly believe that less government intrusion and manipulation will allow for the the society (especially in terms of personal behavior and morality) to reach it's own healthy equilibrium.

71 posted on 07/12/2004 7:02:05 AM PDT by zarf
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To: Wallace T.
First of all, thank you for the excellent and well thought out post. I will put you on my VIF (Very intelligent Freepers)list for future reference.

The picture you paint is a fair and balanced defense of SC's goals based on Christian teachings in their ideal, educated conservative form.

My argument is that although you are correct about the doctrine itself and perhaps even the intent, the practice and/or interpretation comes across in such a manner that it scares average moral Americans (who according to you should have nothing to fear). And, it scares them enough to vote for Democrats. Thus, something must be rotten in Denmark.

I will admit to intentionally nitpicking by pulling out these words you used:

of the ability to control vice

as a prime example of the type of language that SC's use that causes them to split the party. The Vice Police or religious police are exactly the type of institutions that exist in the theocratic systems of Islam.

Moreover, the undoubted response of an SC to the question, "Who decides what is moral?" is to revert to the Christian bible. Unfortunately, there are some disagreements in different cultures with regards to things such as divorce and pre-marital sex. Thus, in a pluralistic culture such as America, talk about controlling vice can quickly be interpreted as an attempt to impose Christian religious values on others regardless of religion.

I do not want you to get me wrong, I agree with most of the basic SC tenets. That is not the point. Rather that their "bible thumping" generally does more damange to Republicans causes on a national (and often state) level than it does good.

75 posted on 07/12/2004 7:16:43 AM PDT by Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit (Tax Energy not Labour.)
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To: Wallace T.

good post. There is no comparison btwn the Taliban and what mainstream Chirstianity wants. The Bible says we are first citizens of heaven.


76 posted on 07/12/2004 7:18:46 AM PDT by votelife (Calling abortion a women's issue is like calling war a men's issue!)
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To: Wallace T.

Your post #56 is very well put, good job.


93 posted on 07/12/2004 8:53:21 AM PDT by exnavy
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