Conservatives crucial to Bush's re-election restive about Iraq war

San Francisco Chronicle ^ | July 11, 2004 | SCOTT LINDLAW

[Missouri]

That's why it's critical that Bush's base stand united behind Bush and turn out on election day.

I wouldn't miss it for the world.

You worry to much about what is said on this forum. This is where I come to to get information and ideas. Sometimes there are disagreements just like in a family. I for one think this debate is good.

Just out of curiosity, why do you think California has gone from a solid Republican state from 1952 to 1988 (except 1964) to a solid Democratic state? What has changed?

[Reagan Man]

>>>" . . .Religious conservatives helped Ronald Reagan win the presidency in the 1980s and helped Republicans retake the House and Senate in 1994, but complain that they have little to show for their loyalty to the GOP."

There's data that shows evangelical Christians make up 20%-25% of the voting public, with the GOP getting about eight in ten of those votes. That makes the Religious Right, aka.Christian Conservatives, a powerful part of the GOP`s base. I don't know if 6-million evangelical Christians stayed home in 2000, but if 6-million conservative Christians stay home this time around, Bush will probably lose.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Let's just address the concluding argument, shall we?

Any source that takes delight in raising the specter of "neoconservative" influence is one I tend to discredit on the merit a number of the detractors use it as means to voice anti-semitic thought.

Man, you walked right into that one.

In the article I just posted to you, here's a quote.

"What Kaplan, Brooks, Boot, and Kagan are doing is what the Rev. Jesse Jackson does when caught with some mammoth contribution from a Fortune 500 company he has lately accused of discriminating. He plays the race card. So, too, the neoconservatives are trying to fend off critics by assassinating their character and impugning their motives."

[Joe Hadenuf]

Fact: They have declared war on us.

The entire Middle East? You stated we must reform the entire Middle East? Who has declared war on us?

[Reagan Man]

>>>Just out of curiosity, why do you think California has gone from a solid Republican state from 1952 to 1988 (except 1964) to a solid Democratic state? What has changed?

For one thing, several million illegal immigrants have become US citizens since 1986 and they like the promises of liberal socialist politicians. That has given a huge boost to the liberal establishment on the leftcoast.

[Missouri]

Yes. California has been a magnet for both legal and illegal immigrants. The same thing can be said about Illinois.

Link to F.A.I.R. article

Here is some evidence to back this up. What this tells me is that we are importing more democratic voters.

[Reagan Man]

>>>Yes. California has been a magnet for both legal and illegal immigrants. The same thing can be said about Illinois.
Here is some evidence to back this up. What this tells me is that we are importing more democratic voters.

Congress has passed 7 amnesties for illegal aliens, starting in 1986.

1. Immigration and Reform Control Act (IRCA) Amnesty, 1986: A blanket amnesty for some 2.7 million illegal aliens

2. Section 245(i) Amnesty, 1994: A temporary rolling amnesty for 578,000 illegal aliens

3. Section 245(i) Extension Amnesty, 1997: An extension of the rolling amnesty created in 1994

4. Nicaraguan Adjustment and Central American Relief Act (NACARA) Amnesty, 1997: An amnesty for close to one million illegal aliens from Central America

5. Haitian Refugee Immigration Fairness Act Amnesty (HRIFA), 1998: An amnesty for 125,000 illegal aliens from Haiti

6. Late Amnesty, 2000: An amnesty for some illegal aliens who claim they should have been amnestied under the 1986 IRCA amnesty, an estimated 400,000 illegal aliens

7. LIFE Act Amnesty, 2000: A reinstatement of the rolling Section 245(i) amnesty, an estimated 900,000 illegal aliens

8. Nine current bills are vying to be Amnesty No. 8

In its first two centuries, this nation opened its borders to the largest sustained annual flow of (legal) immigration in world history.

Congress passed a 1965 law that nearly tripled immigration over recent tradition

After Congress changed the law again in 1990, immigration levels have had little resemblance to our nation's immigration tradition.

We have a serious problem with both legal and illegal immigration.

[Soul Seeker]

"Man, you walked right into that one. "

I read the article, including that quote.

I deliberately chose the reply I made with that quote in mind for I do not bow to pressure to take a less vocal stance for fear of pre-emptive rhetoric. You might consider that the person you quoted is infact doing what you accuse me of.

I stand by my statement. A number do use "neoconservatism" as a tool to spread anti-semitic thought. You'll notice I did not say all, nor the majority. Given it's misuse for reasons I object to, I will not give respect to its usage. If you want to debate the thoughts of the policy in play, I will do so. I will not engage in a debate of "neoconservative".

"Fact: They have declared war on us.
The entire Middle East? You stated we must reform the entire Middle East? Who has declared war on us?"

Again, I did not state the Middle East declared war on us. If you cannot separate your belief from my own this conversation is useless. Islamic Fundamentalists, as you should be aware, declared war on our country. Saddam, not a fundamentalist of Islam, declared war on this country. The goal of extremists is to destroy "The Great Satan". Governments that create an atmosphere where this view is embraced need reform. Saddam supported the objective of these fundmentalists. He needed to be removed. The Fundamentalists now lack one less ally in their battle against the U.S. Result? An opportunity for freedom in one more country with less of a threat this same nation will look tolerantly on those intent on causing our country harm. They will hopefully be more engaged in leading happy productive lives that are at odds with the call to death that jihadists demand. Neighboring Muslim states will in turn be impacted by their freedoms, desirous of the same for themselves.

[FairOpinion]

"Just out of curiosity, why do you think California has gone from a solid Republican state from 1952 to 1988 (except 1964) to a solid Democratic state? What has changed?"


What has changes is that the uncompromising conservatives took over the CA Republican Party, who insisted on nominating unelectable candidates, putting their philosophy in practice: "better a Democrat, than a moderate Republican." And all of us suffer as a result.

The only reason Arnold won, was because there was no primary -- and even in that election, McClintock refused to drop out, almost throwing the election to Bustamante.

[TASMANIANRED]

Liberal wishful thinking. I haven't been too thrilled with some of the social spending but I will crawl through broken glass, a swim a moat of lye and have dinner with my Mother in Law to vote for Bush.

We may have another terrorist incident under Bush. Under Kerry and his appeasement every city in the US will look like Jerusalem. Kerry in speech, word and deed conveys weakness. Terrorists love to pick on the weak. The US will look like a pigeon ripe for plucking. We will have daily suicide bombings. Kerry scares the hell out of me.

[Joe Hadenuf]

You might consider that the person you quoted is infact doing what you accuse me of.

What might that be?

[FairOpinion]

"I haven't been too thrilled with some of the social spending but I will crawl through broken glass, a swim a moat of lye and have dinner with my Mother in Law to vote for Bush. "

===

That's what Bush needs. If all those claiming to be conservatives were like you, we would have an assured Bush victory. :)

[agincourt1415]

Any thing from S.F., its unnecessary to read. This is the Liberals trying to stir things up, its almost funny.

[Reagan Man]

You really really hate conservatives. Not only that but you still have sour grapes because Tom McClintock dared to run for public office in an honest attempt to reform the second most liberal state in the union! You leftcoasters had your chance to change California. California remains in economic crisis and GovRino isn't helping matters. Evidence from the last Gallup poll before the recall election, clearly indicated that McClintock would have beaten Bustamonte in a head to head election. As it was, McClintock's candidacy didn't stop Arnold from winning. Another red herring.

[Missouri]

almost throwing the election to Bustamante.

I thought Arnold got about 50% of the vote and McClintock got about 13%. That equals 62% which leaves 38% for Bustamante and the others. Doesn't sound like Bustamante was that close.

[FairOpinion]

Read TASMANIARED's post, #90 on this thread.

Now THAT is a REAL conservative, not the whiners, "pretend-conservatives", who would rather see Kerry win.


TASMANIARED: "I haven't been too thrilled with some of the social spending but I will crawl through broken glass, a swim a moat of lye and have dinner with my Mother in Law to vote for Bush."

[deport]

Yacht Club wing of the Party.

---

Is that sorta the polar opposite of the 'French Wing' of the Party?

[WilliamofCarmichael]

RE: Do those evangelicals believe Kerry will address their concerns better and is closer to their value system?

The political astute ones, NO.

The apolitical ones, perhaps but most likely they too would say No.

Do you believe that U.S. citizens should have the right to communicate their beliefs to elected leaders? YES or NO. Or, in between somewhere, if you wish.

[lentulusgracchus]

This election may come down to a handful of states ....

The last few that put someone over the top always are the few......

In addition to the ones you name, the handicappers are now adding North Carolina, Louisiana, Arkansas, and (as always) Florida. Bush got them all last time. If he loses either NC or Florida, or some combination of the others, he loses the election. Thus CBS News, gloating over their election prospects.

It's really important that the Governator pull a rabbit out of a hat out on the Left Coast this year.

[FairOpinion]

There is a big difference between "communicating" your beliefs, issues, desires, etc. to the President and sitting out and election and letting the enemy win, because, he didn't address every single one of your pet-issues adequately in your own mind, totally ignoring reality of what Bush had to deal with and dealt with successfully, since he took office.