Darth Gill: Of course, we do not know who the elect are. The wicked only receive temporal goodness for the sake of God's people. Remember, God is using this common bounty and their rejection of His goodness and His gospel to build up His wrath upon these sinners.
Even as it is written in the OT (Isaiah 45:22 "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth" it is confirmed in the New, where in 1 Timothy 2:4 it describes God as One "who desires all men to be saved and to come the the knowledge of the truth."
Darth Gill: Sophmoric. Isaiah 45:22 - Christ has his people scattered all over the earth. They will be turned, there is no doubt about that. I don't see universalism in this passage.
And 1 Tim 2:4, the "all men" are all of His people from every tribe tongue and nation. You must use context. Besides, God always gets what He desires. If He desired the salvation of all men universally as you say, well, they would be! Who are you to declare God is impotent and dependent upon man to bestow the blessings of Salvation?
This is the One who declares in Ezekiel 18:23 "Say to them, 'As I live!' declares the Lord God ' I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather thatn the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways! Why then will you die, O house of Israel?'"
Darth Gill: God does take pleasure in the death of the wicked because it is a fulfillment of HIs will. The death of the wicked is a strange work for Him, but nevertheless, it is his pleasure, for the Lord does as He pleases (see above). This is just saying that God takes more pleasure in the conversion of sinners.
This then explains the attitude of heaven when Jesus taught in Luke 15:7 "there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous who need no repentence."
Yep, of course! I don't see how this proves your point. God delights and LOVES when His children come home.
The Bible teaches that condemnation was not the ultimate purpose of the law, but rather to show man that he needed to trust in God rather than self-effort. Romans 11:32 states that".God has shut up all in disobedience that He might show mercy to all."
Huh? The Bible says clearly that the Law was given as a CURSE! Heb 8:13; Luke 22:20. Further, Romans 11:32 is speaking of all of God's People, His elect. Just look at Gal. 3:22.
C.S. Lewis, Dr. Hugh Ross, and others have postulated that even the torments of Hell are not so great as the torments that the eternal unsaved might inflict on others were they granted freedom. The fires and chains of Hell are like cages and electric fences for mad dogs. Punishing the dog is not even the point.
I don't care what C.S. Lewis thinks.. He was a lost man when he wrote all those books. I don't know if he was brought to faith, but from all appearances, he's probably in hell experiencing eternal torment as we speak.
A heresy is often a truth taken to untrue extremes. You may be right about the character of God, but I think you are taking only one part of His richer-than-man nature and presenting it as the whole thing. The overall effect of this is to present a false picture of who God is.
I believe God is very loving! He Loves His People. God's LOVE must only be found in Christ. Christ is the central theme of all of Scripture. God's love to His people is ETERNAL and UNMEASURABLE. DOn't accuse me of teaching God does not love. His love is shed abroad in my heart day after day. You however, are the one guilty of taking this theme and DESECRATING and PROFANING it by giving it out to those who have been ordained unto condemnation. Can you imagine a wife hearing from her husband - "I love you, but I love all these other women too and even desire to marry them, but I love you just specially." Gag me with a spoon, because that is EXACTLY what you are teaching. You are teaching that God loves men after He's sent them to hell. Oh poor God, what is He to do? You've made Him into an IDOL after your imagination. You are the heretic my friend. REPENT!
I hope you are wrong, or at least unbalanced, about who God is. I am not attacted to the picture of Him you paint, which shows His sovereignty and wrath, but not mercy and Love.
Darth Gill: Of course you're not attracted to the picture I bring. However, you are misrepresenting me. God is full of mercy and love - I never denied that. I limit it to where SCRIPTURE limits it just as YOU limit God's hate to where Scripture limits it. I do not proclaim universal hatred, but you proclaim universal love.
1 Timothy 2:4 "...God who desires all men to be saved and to come the the knowledge of the truth."
Darth Gill: "I dont see universalism in this passage"..."And 1 Tim 2:4, the "all men" are all of His people from every tribe tongue and nation. You must use context.
Ahban: "All men" seems to mean "All men" without any of the qualifiers that you want to shoehorn into God's Word.
Darth: Besides, God always gets what He desires. If He desired the salvation of all men universally as you say, well, they would be! Who are you to declare God is impotent and dependent upon man to bestow the blessings of Salvation?"
Ahban: God does get what He desires in the long run, even though His desire includes giving us the freedom to violate His will in the short term. Did God "desire" that David commit adultery with Bathsheba and murder her husband? And it is not ME saying this. Jesus (to give just one example) said in Matthew 23:37 "Jerusalem O Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to help her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling."
If God gets what He wills no matter what we do or say then why would Jesus tell us to pray "Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, on Earth, as it is in Heaven"?