Posted on 07/08/2004 7:10:31 AM PDT by doug from upland
Edited on 07/08/2004 2:03:56 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
Jayna Davis, author of THE THIRD TERRORIST, is scheduled today for the Larry Elder show, guest hosted by Doug McIntyre. The time is 3pm Pacific. Then at 6pm Pacific, she will be on this thread to answer questions.
Jayna's work in exposing the Iraqi connection in the OKC bombing has been endorsed by James Woolsey, Dave Schippers, and Frank Gaffney. No, folks, McVeigh and Nichols did not act alone.
If you haven't read the book, please look over the info on the website, particularly the interview done on the Glen Beck show. You can listen to the Larry Elder show online by going to the KABC WEBSITE.
Let's try to make it easy for Jayna. Because I anticipate a busy thread with lots of comments, please use red font to ask questions.
(example)
QUESTION: Jayna, why did Tim McVeigh not rat out his Iraqi pals?
What did Clinton know and when did he know it??
I've sent an e-mail to Neal Boortz here in Atlanta, including links to this thread and your website, requesting him to schedule you for his show which is syndicated all over the southeast, including Florida.
I will follow up with calls.
It seems like Laurie Mylroie's 'stolen identity' theory may be easy to test. Laurie Mylroie in the WSJ http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110004906 questioned Ramzi Yousef’s identity based on questionable Kuwaiti documents which indicated Iraqi involvement. Also questionable is the identity of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (mastermind of 911 attacks) based on these documents.
According to these documents, Mohammed is Ramzi Yousef's "uncle," and two other al Qaeda masterminds are Yousef's "brothers."
A former deputy chief of Israeli Military Intelligence, Amos Gilboa, has observed that "it's obvious" that these identities are fabricated. A family is not at the core of the most ambitious, most lethal series of terrorist assaults in U.S. history. These are Iraqi agents, given "legends," on the basis of Kuwait's files, while Iraq occupied the country.
Question: Do the documents indicate Ramzi Yousef and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed are blood relatives? Both Yousef and KSM are in U.S. custody. Has a DNA check ever been performed to verify whether they are related?
A DNA test is simple to perform and would conclusively prove whether they are blood relatives.
Fantastic work ... I am the last guy in the room to fall for bogus conspiracy theories ... Ocham's (sp.?) Razor and all that ... but the book lays out such a clear case, devoid of political motives (unlike a certain corpulent, mendacious b-stard I could mention) ... the dots that need to be connected are so close together, so many people would need to be either out of their minds or lying for no reason that this almost seems like a no-brainer.
I know you don't like to ascribe motives, but I do, and it seems to me the previous Administration had much to gain by pinning this solely on home grown, "right wing" terrorists ...
You're going to get a nice girl like Jayna involved with Neal? Shame on you! ;^)
Jayna's hubby has nothing to worry about...Neal's got a face for radio. ;^)
I guess if I have a question its about the apparent ongoing connections to Oklahoma that Zachariahs Moussoui had to OKC.
I detail that connection in Chapter 21 of my book. Here's the cliff notes. Moussaoui trained at Airman Flight School in Norman, Oklahoma. He also visited the Oklahoma City motel where McVeigh and Nichols collaborated with the Middle Eastern cell in August 2001 (Chapter 12). The overlaps are intriguing.
What have you found regarding a Terry Nichols connection to terrrorists in southern Asia? Does your book include copies of documents etc. to bolster your case of a ME connection to OKC?
The second answer: affidavit of Abu Sayyaf terrorist Edwin Angeles and his Philippine interrogation and debriefing reports, FBI 302s (i.e. Abdul Hakim Murad), government telephone records tracking calls to and from the OKC bomber's residences and the calls placed on the "Daryl Bridges" debit card, as well as classified, ex-parte briefings filed in the McVeigh case.
The first answer: A probing look into the background and travels of convicted bomber Terry Nichols further substantiates that disturbing notion of foreign sponsorship of the 1995 strike on America’s heartland.
I have obtained sealed filings by McVeigh’s defense team that outline reasons why they believed Terry Nichols received bombing making expertise through Al-Qaeda ntelligence based in the Philippines.
Nichols’, a small-time Kansas farmer of modest means, took expensive and unexplained trips to the Philippines, frequently without his Filipino mail order bride.
The court record reveals the Oklahoma City bomber, Terry Nichols was in Cebu City in December 1994 at the same time as the convicted mastermind of the first World Trade Center attack Ramzi Yousef – who was also a chief explosives expert and bombmaker for bin Laden’s network – Al Qaeda.
In 1996, I began my quest to answer one question - did Ramzi Yousef and Terry Nichols cross paths?
According to the sworn statement of the co-founder of the Filipino Muslim terrorist group Abu Sayyaf, which is a spin-off organization of Al Qaeda, that meeting did, in deed, take place in the early 1990’s on the island of Mindanao.
The Abu Sayyaf terrorist said he was present when Terry Nichols, Ramzi Yousef, and two of Middle Eastern co-conspirators met to discuss the acquisition of firearms and bomb making.
Richard Clarke, President Clinton’s former chief terrorist advisor, disclosed in his new book that the FBI “could never disprove” the theory that the Oklahoma City bomber Terry Nichols and the Al Qaeda general Ramzi Yousef collaborated.
Clarke stated – “We do know that Nichols’ bombs did not work before his Philippine stay and were deadly when he returned.”
Phone records reveal that Nichols received and made a plethora of calls to a boarding house in Cebu City, which according to McVeigh’s defense lawyers, sheltered students from a university well known for Islamic militancy.
In an attempt to cover their tracks, Nichols and McVeigh used a phone debit card to make a series of cryptic calls to untraceable numbers and pay phones in the Philippines from public pay phones in Kansas.
Why were the majority of calls placed on the phone debit card that was used to the plan the bombing pouring into the Philippines? That question has never been answered by the DOJ.
Abdul Hakim Murad claims credit for Oklahoma bombing
On April 19, 1995, Abdul Hakim Murad, a Middle Eastern terrorist who was later convicted with Ramzi Yousef in a foiled plot to blow up twelve U.S. airliners in Manila, boasted of involvement in the heartland attack.
Murad told a prison guard at a New York City detention center where he was confined that as a member of the Philippine Liberation Army, he was responsible for the bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building.
In addition to his verbal confession, Murad put this startling admission in writing.
Official interrogation reports detailing Murad’s 1995 statements to U.S. and Filipino authorities revealed the Islamic terrorist disclosed visionary details of the 1994 plot to hijack commercial airlines and convert them into flying missiles.
One of the alleged targets, according to Murad, was CIA headquarters.
In summation, Abdul Hakim Murad proved he was familiar with intimate details of the failed 1995 plot to destroy U.S. airliners, the 1993 attack on World Trade Center, and a future scheme to convert commercial jets into bombs – the paradigm for 9-11.
But FBI investigators discounted the confessed terrorist’s emphatic claim on April 19 that a radical Islamic group based in the Philippines was behind the Murrah building attack.
This is the same individual, whom according to the leader of Abu Sayyaf, was present when Terry Nichols and Ramzi Yousef met to discuss bomb making.
Detailed description of telephone trail of evidence
In an attempt to cover their tracks, Nichols and McVeigh obtained a phone debit card issued under the alias to purchase bomb components.
They also used the card to make a series of cryptic calls to untraceable numbers in the Philippines from public pay phones in Junction City, Kansas.
Defense filings documented two hundred calls to the Philippines, seventy-eight of which were placed to a Cebu City boarding house that sheltered students from a local university well known for Islamic militancy.
Nichols’ Filipino bride, Marife, resided there for a brief period while taking some college courses in physical therapy.
However, Nichols continued to phone that location after Marife returned to their Kansas home.
From April 2 to April 10, an unidentified party placed thirteen calls to Nichols’ Herington, Kansas home from an untraceable number in the Philippines.
On April 21, two hours before Nichols surrendered to the FBI, he phoned this same Cebu boarding house which was a lodge for Muslim students.
Throughout the bomb plot, Nichols made a maniac barrage of phone calls to the Philippines from public pay phones.
Was this consecutive pattern of rings indicative of a code or covert form of communication?
If so, such a clandestine method of sending messages would circumvent government monitoring of overseas phone conversations.
More importantly, they incorrectly assumed the use of public payphones and a debit card would render the evidence trail of calls invisible.
Stephen Jones made discovery demands for classified information which included possible National Security Agency intercepts of Nichols’ international conversations to the South Pacific. The court refused his requests.
Four days after sept. 11th, the motel employee after seeing Mohammed Atta, Al-Shehhi, and Zacarias Moussaoui on TV recounted their visit to his hotel in Aug. 2001. This was prior to the movements of the terrorists being reported... evidence now indicates they were in the area.
Do you have a file of 'dead end' information where these side trails end, and do you share such info with other investigators?
There's been some news reports that the FBI checked old fingerprints of Basit still had at Swansea School in England -- reports say they matched Yosef's.
Incredible detail. You have really done your homework.
True Capitalist -- I really like your commentary. You get it!
I want to offer my personal congratulations on a job well done. Your book is a must read for everyone. I have bought two books - one for myself and one for my local library.
Your research is impeccable and you are very brave and tenacious. Thank you.
Peach
To your knowledge has Ramzi Yousef ever been questioned regarding the OKC bombing?
I do not know. However, if he were questioned I am fairly confident (speculation on my part) that portion of the FBI 302 could easily have been excised from the record. In Chapter 16 of my book I detail how the FBI danced around the Murad statement in which he claimed responsibility for the April 19 bombing but the Bureau conducted no follow-up interrogation. Who believes that????
This is like the dog that didn't bark by Conan Doyle, imo.
The "pattern of rings" code theory is intriguing. Have al Qaeda, Iraq or any other terrorists been known to use pattern of rings to covertly communicate?
My question: did you interview any of these Subway clerks, what do you think of their stories, and has the FBI ever affirmed the video’s existence, perhaps by releasing it to the defense lawyers?
I did not know about the Subway clerks and I scoured that town for days.
I DO KNOW about videotape but did not include that topic in my book.
I have compiled a comprehensive dossier of court records and evidence which lays a firm foundation for the belief that the public has yet to see all the surveillance tapes in the government files which relate to the Oklahoma bombing.
In 2001, federal authorities reluctantly conceded in response to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit filed by an Oklahoma journalist that the Department of Justice maintains custody of twenty-two surveillance videotapes.
They were recorded between April 15 and April 19, 1995.
The FBI confiscated those twenty-two tapes from security cameras near the doomed Murrah Building.
So who and what do those tapes show?
The Justice Department steadfastly maintains that only one surveillance videotape recorded by a camera positioned in the lobby of the nearby Regency Tower Apartment complex that captured the events of April 19.
The blurry, black and white photographic image of a large Ryder truck heading east on 5th Street on its deadly trek to the federal complex was unveiled during Timothy McVeigh’s federal trial.
Is the Regency Tower’s videotape the only recording which memorialized the morning of the bombing?
The judge who presided over the FOIA case in Oklahoma federal court says no.
After reviewing a confidential index of the surveillance videotapes in federal custody, U.S. District Judge Wayne Alley ruled on July 10, 2001 “the FBI’s list of responsive material from its Oklahoma City Field Office includes numerous other tapes dated April 19, 1995, from several sources.”
In short, Judge Alley plainly stated in the court record that the FBI has in its custody numerous tapes which were recorded on the day of the bombing – tapes the public has never seen.
The judge stopped short of stating what those tapes show. However, I have uncovered a trail of evidentiary clues which raises many unanswered questions.
Journal Record Building surveillance tape
Where is the videotape of the vehicle which resembled McVeigh’s Mercury Marquis parked directly north of the Murrah Building in the Journal Record parking lot moments before 9:02 am?
On April 27, 1995, Oklahoma City FBI agent Jon Hersley testified in open court to viewing photographs originating from a security camera positioned on the Journal Record Building.
What happened to that tape? Agent Hersley said under oath that the surveillance photographs showed McVeigh’s Mercury Marquis.
I have an FBI 302 which establishes that tape was taken into custody within hours of the blast, but my research indicates the defense teams never received a copy. Why?
The Journal Record building security camera was trained on the alleyway through which McVeigh reportedly fled in his Mercury Marquis shortly before the explosion.
Regency Towers Surveillance Tape
Why did the FBI not disclose the images viewed by a second lobby camera positioned in the entryway of Regency Tower complex?
According to ADT Security officials who installed the system and Regency employees who monitored the security cameras, the master recording from the building’s fourteen cameras would have captured images from an additional ground floor camera.
That camera was aimed in an eastward direction toward the intersection of 5th and Harvey Streets, where the Murrah Building once stood.
But where is the tape of what that camera memorialized the morning of April 19?
Curiously, government prosecutors limited its disclosure of photographs in court to the lobby camera pointed westward, away from the federal building. All we saw was a blurry image of a Ryder truck.
FBI documents establish that the Regency Tower security cameras were simultaneously recorded by a Vicon VCR 401 time lapse 4-head double density video recorder, Robot MV 16 multi-vision plus processor. So what does that technical gobblygook mean? Plenty.
The Regency Tower security recording system simultaneously memorialized the events captured by both lobby cameras, not just one.
But for some unknown reason, the image of the passing Ryder truck originating from only one camera was presented in the Denver courtroom.
So what did the second lobby camera show ----- the one that was pointed toward the Murrah Building?
We don’t know. But we can safely conclude the image was recorded on the Regency Tower recorder.
Murrah Building Videotape
There is one more tape which could have potentially captured Timothy McVeigh and John Doe 2 as they parked the explosives-laden Ryder truck.
This camera was positioned on the northeast side of the Murrah Building and had tape been rolling – it would have provided an instant replay of the crime and all those involved.
In the fall of 2000, I scoured through thousands of photographs taken by journalists, bystanders, first responders, and the bombing memorial archives searching for the earliest images of the bombed out building.
I found one photograph which clearly showed the camera stationed above the first floor of the Murrah Building on the northeast side. The lens was trained directly on the area where the bomb truck had been parked.
An Oklahoma City police officer who commanded the search and rescue canine unit stated in a sworn affidavit that he witnessed the FBI removing the surveillance cameras from the exterior of the Murrah Building.
Those cameras were stripped by one o’clock in the afternoon on April 19, just four hours after the blast.
So here’s the $64,000 question: Was there tape rolling on the day of the bombing and did the tape survive the blast?
I can provide only a partial answer. I know for a fact that the recording device for the Murrah Building video surveillance system was located in the basement of the federal courthouse.
The courthouse was located south of the Murrah Building and was shielded from the tremendous impact of the explosion.
So if there was videotape in the recorder, it would have remained intact.
I spoke to employees of the General Services Administration who led me to believe that federal budget cutbacks made the cost of videotapes prohibitive, so there was no tape in the deck the morning of April 19.
However, that excuse is flimsy at best. Prior to the bombing, the federal government invested in a new video security system for the Murrah building and had installed an extra camera on the ground floor GSA office due to a “known security risk to employees.”
So why could Uncle Sam not afford the nominal expenditure for a video library of tapes which would document events in and around the federal complex on a 24-hour cycle?
I never received a satisfactory answer to that question.
Surveillance Tapes Permanently Sealed
In late 2001, U.S. District Judge Richard Matsch, who presided over the bombing trials, ruled in favor of the DOJ’s request to seal all twenty-two tapes recovered from businesses surrounding the Murrah Building.
To this day, the content of those recordings remains unknown.
The judge in the FOIA lawsuit implored Judge Matsch to lift the “shroud of secrecy” and release the tapes. But I guess now, that will never happen. But what about the FREEPER FACTOR???
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