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To: hocndoc
It was the same body

Yeah. In fact, you couldn't even tell us apart (my mom was VERY big during her pregnancy--tough delivery too).

your DNA, or your soul - whichever name you wish

Is there a comet coming around soon to pick you up? Sneakers ready?

As to what the morula values, I repeat: not all members of the species must demonstrate all the characteristics of the species at all - or even any - of the time.

Changing your mind again. Finally you agree with my assertion that initially we do not value anything. I feel like I've succeeded in some small way with you. Now if I can just bring you back to earth.

Your statement that the human default position is one of no values and so it's incumbent on the valuer to support his views is in itself a value statement. It's wrong,

Actually, the "default position" is a matter of biological fact, as you finally surmised in your previous paragaph.

That the burden of justification is on those making positive assertions and declaring values, is indeed a value statement. Mostly it is the value of avoiding the absurd. Whether it is because I'm a morula and cannot value anything, or because it is something I've never experienced or never considered and so cannot value, it is absurd to come to me, in those situations, and ask me to justify my absence of those values. You can if you like. If I'm a morula, you'll probably get the silent treatment. In the other situation, you might get a "I don't know what you are talking about." Interesting answers will only come from those who value the thing in question.

I'll give you another simple example of this absurdity (in addition to the morula one I gave)--How do you value the new GT6-XVR5?

but it points out that you believe/know/understand/have a drive toward unconditional Truth that leads you to have this discussion.

How do you know it doesn't point out a drive toward conditional truth? Or just plain old down home country style deep fried wuggy nuggy truth?

And, if you truly believe your own statement, you wouldn't feel a need for psychotropics in order to support it.

No man, the peyote isn't for making sense, it is to better appreciate all this infinite love, unconditional truth, I'm-a-morula, DNA-is-soul, intrinsic-guiding-force, voodoo stuff. I'll take a few puffs and meet you in orbit, dude.

181 posted on 07/06/2004 4:20:17 AM PDT by beavus
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To: beavus

Are you seriously suggesting that because the morula demonstrates a certain characteristic, that that is the "default position"? From that definition, the default position of humans is a lack of speech, lack of limbs, etc.

The default position is not the lowest common denominator, it is the one *chosen* or most often demonstrated, when there are multiple possibilities.

The fact is that you're not going to be asking a precognitive human being a question of values, you're not going to ask any creature who is not human, and you're not going to demand or expect an answer from someone who does not speak your language. There are certain givens in the scenario.


For humans, the default position is the possession of basically the same values - as you agreed yesterday - , self preservation, propagation, pleasure, etc.

Basic philosophy 101 and support for your own value statement shouldn't produce so much consternation. Each of the terms and precepts that I used were explained in the reference I gave. To save time, I suggested that you read the Spitzer website which explains the definition of values, "unconditional" and "ultimate Love."

Alisdair McIntyre discussed the cargo culture state of philosophical discourse at the end of the last milenium, but I believe that he agreed with Dr. Spitzer that careful definitions will allow discourse on ethics.


190 posted on 07/06/2004 12:08:41 PM PDT by hocndoc (Choice is the # 1 killer in the US)
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