[stuartcr]

I agree, those may be Bin Ladens' goals, but I don't believe they are the goals of Islam...perhaps, if he was it's leader, he would say they were.

I think one of the reasons that Muslims are quiet, is that they believe all that happens is the will of God...and who are they to question the will of God? I may very well be wrong, as I am not a Muslim, but this is the way it looks to me.

I really don't think there is such a thing as a religious war, as religions are created by man. These wars, that are referred to as religious wars, are waged by men that want something, and one of their weapons is religious zealotry.

[NavySEAL F-16]

You might want to read the Koran and the Hadiths. You will see what Islam teaches.

[broadsword]

...but I don't believe they are the goals of Islam...

That statement shows you to be either ignorant of Islam and the Koran or a trojan horse for those who have declared war on human civilization.

[MACVSOG68]

I think one of the reasons that Muslims are quiet, is that they believe all that happens is the will of God...and who are they to question the will of God? I may very well be wrong, as I am not a Muslim, but this is the way it looks to me.

I agree completely with that, which is why bin Laden's task is so much easier than it ought to be. Remember, all political change comes from activists, not the quiet majority. He has the goal of an greater Islamic empire, and he has the means to do so as long as we refuse to admit two things. One, all Muslims are not terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims. Second, the critical states in this game are Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, all of which are very weak internally. The West must recognize this and understand that Iraq is the key in this game of dominoes and must be stabilized at any cost.

[frankandjoan]

I wish I could agree with you, stuartcr, but alas I cannot. Leyman was right in his assessment, this is a religious war. You need to read the Koran to understand, and until you do, you really cannot disagree with Leymans point.

In the narrowest sense you are right, that this is a (large) group of people who wage war because they are after something. I don't understand why in your mind that the something they seek cannot be religious world domination.

Just because religion may or may not be a creation of man has no bearing on how the ideology might be promoted or defended by its followers. In the strictest sense, a country is the same thing, an abstract construct existing in the minds of its citizens. If 100 % of the people of, say Poland, decided later today that Poland was dissolved, then Poland would be dissolved.

None of which really matters, because the only relevant issue in the debate is how the Muslim fundamentalists feel about the teaching of their book. You really ought to look up the phrase "Islamic hatred" on Google and do some reading. Just be prepared to have your eyes opened up quite widely.