'Our Enemy Is Not Terrorism'

The U.S. Naval Institute 130th Annual Meeting and Annapolis Naval History Symposium (2004 | 1 July 2004 | John Lehman, Former Secretary of the Navy

[stuartcr]

And many still are there.

[stuartcr]

Our war, as you say, was against Nazi GERMANY, a sovereign state, with a government.

[PresbyRev]

No, rather it was a limited event; it had parameters and a telos.

Apart from intramural debates amongst Jews and Christians over the 'herem' of Joshua - it does not serve as a rationale for holy war or violence today.

Islam's sacred writings are a manifesto for world conquest through violence - the only telos or end-goal it has in mind in the complete submission of all people to Islam.

[MACVSOG68]

Don't the Muslims consider much of it "Holy Land" too? Are you justifying their actions?

Not at all. I don't have to. History is history. This thread was not started to discuss the historical deeds of organized religions, but to discuss a real threat to Western civilization today. You again refuse to answer the question I have posed concerning your charge about current non-Islamic terrorist goals.

I realize you are newly signed up today, and suspect you are simply a DU regular trying to disrupt an otherwise educated discussion. If not, I stand corrected and welcome to FR.

[PresbyRev]

. . . and many suffer under the brutality and darkness of Islam . . .

[frankandjoan]

Point well taken, sir. I never had any doubt that passages of this nature are numerous in the Koran, in fact, I believe and you have shown that they are far more numerous then the so-called "Satanic Verses" that I have referred to. However, the perps in this case, perhaps relying on the Koran as justification for thuggish behavior, are perverting their religion in the minds of average Joes like myself. I am frustrated beyond belief that more peaceful Muslims don't oppose their actions, but I remain convinced that this opposition would land them in the "unbeliever" category, and they would be subject to appropriate puinishments and sanctions.

It's up to us to "dissuade" them from this path of horror, by providing a greater horror for them. I am also convinced that their position is utterly beyond reason. Unfortunately, my position is, as well. That would be thanks to 9/11 and a few rolling heads.

I apologize for my strident tone, but I feel very strongly about all this. I live in fear that next a FEMALE soldier will be captured, and that she will be beheaded on tape, and that the tape will be made available for the consumption of the soft, nervous, safety conscious Americans who can no longer tolerate as few as 1% casualties without squealing.

These thugs have far more stomach for war then we do, and that scares me to my core.

[stuartcr]

In the Quran, it is said:

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)

Also, the Prophet Muhammad used to prohibit soldiers from killing women and children,1 and he would advise them: {...Do not betray, do not be excessive, do not kill a newborn child.}2 And he also said: {Whoever has killed a person having a treaty with the Muslims shall not smell the fragrance of Paradise, though its fragrance is found for a span of forty years.}3 He once listed murder as the second of the major sins,5 and he even warned that on the Day of Judgment, {The first cases to be adjudicated between people on the Day of Judgment will be those of bloodshed.6}7

I believe we are dealing with murderous terrorists, that are using SOME of the tenets of their religion to rally those that, for whatever reason, are easily manipulated. There are millions that live by the tenets of Islam, that do not agree with these fanatical zealots. Which ones are the true Muslims, the evil ones or the good ones?....it's your interpretation, you can continue hating 1/5 of the population of the world, or just those that are truly responsible.

[F16Fighter]

The State Department had a guy on its list named Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. He was already under indictment for his role in planning the 1993 attack on the World Trade Center. The State Department issued him a visa. I could go on and on.

Yes, do go "on and on"...

Especially with the part in which you indict Bubba Clinton for his 'Do-Nothing-About-Terrorism-Because-I'm-Busy-Getting-A-BJ' policy which encouraged 9/11.

[F16Fighter]

"Lets not play semantic games, christianity and judaism both have had their violent religious periods, then reformers tamed the zealots and the religions are able to live in peace in the same community."

Lol -- who's the one playing a "game"??

Cut the absurd fake analogous equivocation bullsh*t.

Would you also like us to believe there is an equivocation between BB gun pellets and an A-Bomb??

[stuartcr]

Myself, I think that there are probably a number of reasons why Muslims do not speak out against the current evil, as we would expect or wish they did. In addition to your reason, I believe that many, especially the more fundamentalist(non-evil) ones, see what happens around them, as the the will of God, and they do not believe they should question that will. I also happen to believe that, like many people of all religions, around the world, they simply are going on with their lives, and if it doesn't affect them personally, then why stand on a corner and start yelling about it...perhaps they realise, as we do, that this terrorism is horrible behavior, and they take it for granted that any civilised human being could not possibly condone what is going on. With 1/5 of the world population Muslims, there's bound to be many reasons why. Abortion is a horrible reality, but, globally, you see a rather small number of people that are very vocal about it. Of course, here on FR, we are a very small, but vocal group, and it comes up at least daily. I just don't think we can hold the majority of the people of the world, to our standards or expectations.

[bootless]

BUMP for reality.

[TOUGH STOUGH]

"Not any of the 19 officers lost their jobs at Immigration for allowing the 19 terrorists"

Strongly agree. Were any of them even mentioned in the 911 investigation report?

[TOUGH STOUGH]

I have to say I knew seconds after the second plane hit the WTC that it was Osama and said as much to my coworkers. In many respects I have always understood the mind of the terrorist and also the mind of the left (I have been observing the left and for a good part of the time working with them, for the past 25 years.)

[ovrtaxt]

I know many that consider themselves to be serious Muslims, yet have no part in, nor want any part in, terrorism.

Then they are not following the example of Mohammed.

[ovrtaxt]

I would suggest that you take those sweet, lovely verses and get on a plane to the middle east. Then you can stand on a street corner and preach the truth of Islam to all those people, and save America.

We are not the ones who need to hear those verses.

Of course, if this isn't a religious war, you should be quite safe... I mean, all you are doing is teaching the Koran, absolutely no political agenda at all...

[ovrtaxt]

it's your interpretation, you can continue hating 1/5 of the population of the world, or just those that are truly responsible.

Well, you finally got around to it. It took you 167 posts to make the "hate" accusation.

Call Louis Farrakhan, maybe you can organize a civil rights march.

[stuartcr]

What about the parts of what he said that do not encourage violence?

[stuartcr]

I'm teaching nothing, if you cannot handle the fact that not all of what is in the Koran encourages violence, then who cares?...fair and balanced...I presented the other side, you decide what you want.

[stuartcr]

So, big deal, I said hate, I'm not pc, never said I was...if you don't think that the world, and yes, even FR, is full of a lot of people that hate something.....then wake-up and look and listen.

Civil rights march???