Posted on 06/30/2004 4:45:27 AM PDT by Jane_N
SARAJEVO (Reuters) - Bosnia peace overseer Paddy Ashdown dismissed 60 Bosnian Serb officials Wednesday over the authorities' failure to arrest top war crimes suspect Radovan Karadzic.
Those removed included Parliament Speaker Dragan Kalinic, leader of the Serbian Democratic Party (SDS) founded by Karadzic in 1990, and Interior Minister Zoran Djeric.
"I decided to remove these people from public and party positions," Ashdown told a news conference.
Ashdown has sweeping powers to remove officials seen as obstructing the peace process under the 1995 Dayton accord that ended Europe's worst conflict since World War II. More than 200,000 people died in the 1992-95 war, most of them Muslims.
"It was Dragan Kalinic's responsibility as leader of the SDS to prevent fraud, abuse and criminality ... to ensure that the party founded by Radovan Karadzic was no longer financing him," Ashdown said.
Bosnia's Serb Republic has been under growing Western pressure to arrest Karadzic and other war crimes suspects still at large. Karadzic is said to be hiding in remote eastern Bosnia, protected by hard-line loyalists.
Bosnian Serb officials insist they don't know the whereabouts of Karadzic, twice indicted by the Hague war crimes tribunal for genocide together with his military commander Ratko Mladic, who is believed to be in neighboring Serbia.
They are accused for the 1992-95 siege of Sarajevo and the 1995 massacre of up to 8,000 Muslim men and boys after the fall of the eastern town of Srebrenica.
Chief U.N. war crimes prosecutor Carla Del Ponte said on Tuesday Karadzic could be arrested as early as this week.
"I am still thinking that somebody is looking for Karadzic very hard and that he will be arrested very soon," she said after briefing the U.N. Security Council in New York.
Kalinic, a wartime ally of Karadzic, confirmed he had been sacked.
"I was removed today by the High Representative," Kalinic told the parliament of the Serb Republic, one of Bosnia's two post-war entities. "I was removed because of Radovan Karadzic."
"This is the most brutal political purge ... because besides me many others will be removed," he said.
SDS members of parliament left the assembly in protest against the dismissal, saying they would not take part in its work until further notice.
Chief U.N. war crimes prosecutor Carla Del Ponte
Carla just screwed everything up for the opportunity to grab a spotlight at a press conference.
Say what you will about Serbs fighting Islam on our behalf. The man ordered committed war crimes and needs to be held to account.
No offense, but have any photos of the alleged 'mass graves' ever been published? As I don't recall ever seeing any. And didn't Maddy Not-So-Bright say that there were mass graves that contained 100,000 bodies or some such nonsense. Where are those graves?
That being said, what I do remember is that many of the video taped instances of 'Serb ethnic cleansing' were staged. One case in particular was a 'muslim girl with her puppy' being chased by a 'Serb soldier' shooting at her. But it was later found to be a phony event - all staged for the camera.
I'm not sure about published photos. But I have stood guard over mass graves to protect the evidence. And the smell is unforgettable.
No offense ok, but what's a 'mass grave'? Ten, Twenty, Fifty?
And one thing is a fact, the mass graves containing 50-100k was FICTION. In fact it was an outright lie. The Toon wanted a war to distract from his 'dirty deeds'. It had zero to do with 'human rights'.
And as Maddy Not-So-Bright said (paraphrasing), "What's the sense of having this big Army and all these fancy weapons if we can't use them".
And it's also my own little theory that another reason the Toon armed the KLA and backed the moo-slums was to appease the terrorists. "See, I'm for you guys. I'm helping you kill your infidel Christian oppressors. So don't attack us, ok".
"but what's a 'mass grave'?"
I remember having read somewhere that anything containing two or more bodies is considered a "mass grave".
"But I have stood guard over mass graves to protect the evidence"
I hope you don't think I'm prying, but if I may ask, where did you guard over mass graves?
Well yes, but if that's the criteria (two bodies) then the muslims are just as guilty (probably more-so IMO), because they massacred whole Serb families and cleansed (killed) villages of the complete Serb population. And as I recall that's why Slobo initially unleashed his Army, to protect Serbs from the constant muslim attacks.
In the Russian sector of NE Bosnia...the russians couldn't be trusted to protect the evidence.
Go do what Cheney asked the Senator to do!
ok, thanks. I was just curious and do hope you don't mind me prying :)
It was at least several hundred. Hard to estimate in that range. I would say very low end estimate, 200 or 250. High end, 600 or 700. I can tell you that they were bound before they were killed. And that different elements of my unit were at different sites, at least 4 others. There were war crimes in Bosnia.
No, I don't. But the memories are troubling to say the least. The visuals were bad...but the smell will never leave me.
So is your arguement that there really weren't war crimes, or that those who are responsible should not be held to account?
And to anticipate your response...I am not focused on the Serbs. There was ugliness on all sides, and all those who violated the rules of simple humanity need to be held to account. All of them.
Here is my take on the Bosnian war crimes:
Serbians committed more than any other group, because they were 'winning' most of the time and had the most opportunity.
The Croats were the most organized, planned, deliberate and centrally controlled. It really reminded me of the Nazis and their detailed records.
The Muslims committed some of the most individually heinous acts. They did not have many opportunities, and were not well organized...but on an individual basis, were probably some of the worst of atrocities.
Your post was obviously referencing Kosovo. The article, and my comment, was about the Bosnian war. Clintoon had nothing to do with starting that one or magnifying the atrocities.
Kosovo also probably had atrocities, although I do not have direct experience with it. From friends who do, I would say that those atrocities were very much tit for tat...at least as many Serbs were 'cleansed' as Albanians.
I did a search and tried to find a definition of "mass grave". The following are some of the results:
From http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/sep2003/a092103a.html
“Out definition of a mass grave is three or more bodies,”
From http://www.unmikonline.org/justice/ompf/ompf_activities.htm
"Mass, Multiple and Single Graves
A single grave is an individual burial site containing the mortal remains of one person. Both mass and multiple graves contain the remains of more than one individual.
The difference between mass and multiple graves is the respect paid to the dead in the burial process and the subsequent possibility of being able to locate an individual's remains, should exhumation be necessary.
Typically, a mass grave is a large burial site where mortal remains have been dumped randomly. The bodies lie in the position in which they have fallen, often twisted or prone, and overlapping each other. There are no grave markings indicating the site and the identities of the bodies are not recorded. It is impossible to locate an individual’s remains in this kind of site.
A family tomb is an example of a multiple grave. Typically, many people are buried in the same location, usually in a coffin. The bodies have been treated with dignity and buried respecting local traditions. The names of family members are recorded on a tomb marker or monument at the site.
A borderline example of a multiple grave is where multiple remains are buried in a trench. Usually bodies buried in a multiple grave are positioned parallel to each other and do not overlap. Grave markers above ground indicate the approximate location of mortal remains.
Gravesites should be defined according to their legitimacy; whether they have been made legally or illegally. Mass, multiple or single graves may be dug to dispose of evidence as well as for legitimate reasons. Exceptional circumstances should also be taken into consideration. For example, military units may bury casualties in multiple graves for own security in the aftermath of shelling. It is also common for locals to bury the dead similarly in the aftermath of conflict, in order to avert risks to their health."
From http://globetrotter.berkeley.edu/conversations/Haglund/haglund-con7.html
"A mass grave is two or more individuals, so you don't always have hundreds"
From http://www.da.org.yu/stari/151003e.htm
"according to the international standards a mass grave is every grave containing four and over four"
Anyway from what I could see there are different opinions on what a mass grave actually is according to who you ask.
After 9/11, I thought that all the STUPID IGNORANT LIBERAL Americans would start to learn that The Moslems are the bad guys, around the world. Every f—ing problem spot on earth is caused by Moslem fanatics. The shaft has been up your *** for so long, and you can’t even feel it. Wake up. Damn it! Excuse my vulgarity, since I cannot scream any louder.
I also did weapons storage site inspections. The Serbian side of the Bosnian struggle was far and away the best equipped. If anything, the Serbs benefitted from the arms embargo because they had pretty liberal access to JNA stores.
And I don't buy the us vs them means anything goes. The serbs that committed atrocities need to be held to account. Muslims that commit atrocities need to be held to account. Fighting evil does not allow one to commit evil.
And at least in my time and contact with the Muslims in Bosnia, they were far from religious fanatics. They were not Taliban-esqe. They were not wahhabi radicals. The lines were drawn on religious lines, but it was at least as much a cultural war as a religious war. And the Christian Croats found themselves allied with the Muslims in most places most of the time against the Serbs. You forgot to mention that. It was about power and control. Serbs had it and abused it, and the others rebelled.
And it is not your words that are truly vulgar...it is your philosophy and morality, or lack thereof, that are truly vulgar.
While there may be some uncertainty about the definition of mass graves at the low end, several hundered bound people dumped in a ditch and barely covered qualifies by every definition I've ever seen.
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