McCain discusses immigration (guest-worker proposals)

Associated Press ^ | June 28, 2004 | AMANDA LEE MYERS

[YankeeinOkieville]

When I was young no one had a landscaping service manicure their lawn every week. Now if you don't have one you risk having your property taken away by the home owner's association.

when I was young, my brother and I were my parent's landscaping service. My kids are mine - except for the flowerbeds, that's my special place to relax.

Question: Are there no homes or neighborhoods in your berg worthy of you that aren't part of a "home owner's association"?

[Mamzelle]

I'll bet the Second Wife never swabbed her own toilet.

[Don Corleone]

There's a demand for people to fill jobs that Americans won't do."

Cut off the G.D. welfare checks and find out who will want to work!

[Mamzelle]

Just up the road an "undocumented pharmacist" got busted for operating a meth lab. We have to understand the laws of supply and demand.

Mow you own d*&^ lawn, or pay a decent wage to a citizen or legal resident alient to do it for you.

As far as I'm considered, anyone who does otherwise is no better than the meth head and oughta be locked up.

And his lazy wife, too!

[DumpsterDiver]

So, do you think that illegals fill jobs that Americans won't do, as a freeper on this thread wrote?

No, they have filled jobs that Americans can now no longer afford to do unless they wish to emulate the living conditions that illegals are willing to put with.

This has come about over a span of 30 years (give or take a few), so lots of people aren't old enough to have seen it happen.

Listen, I have to get my butt offline now so if you reply to this, it'll be tomorrow before you hear from me, OK?

[Cultural Jihad]

They've repeated this lie so often that they believe it now.

Based on the whines of the xenophobic protectionists on this and other threads, I'd say there's a market niche for farmers, landscapers, janitorial providers, and restaurateurs willing to contract with licensed forgeries experts who will certifiably claim that their companies hire only 100% native or naturalized citizens. The sheer magnitude of people willing to patronize those businesses which hire the services of private investigators and document experts will more than cover the added expenses.

Let's vote with our pocketbooks! Who will be the first to step up to the All-Citizen plate and risk all to get rich quick off of the great angst and anger this issue fosters?

[speekinout]

The US used to have a very effective guest worker program. Yes, it was needed because there are plenty of jobs Americans won't do. In the days when I knew about the program, they were primarily agricultural jobs (back breaking labor), and seasonal jobs at resorts (Americans prefer to have permanent jobs, not just seasonal ones).

The program ended because Liberals thought we were mistreating these people (never mind that most of them lived better here than they did back home). When that happened, the need for workers didn't go away, and the need for jobs for these people didn't go away.

Now these people come illegally, instead of through controlled guest worker programs. I think we need to get back the guest worker program. But one feature of the old program is that these workers did not get on a path to citizenship, and they had to go back home between seasons if they were seasonal workers. They couldn't bring family members who didn't work.
I think that's an important feature of any workable guest worker program.

[Missouri]

The federal government has failed to address illegal immigration in the Southwest and needs to wake up, Sen. John McCain told Hispanic leaders Saturday.

Hey, Senator McCain. You've been part of the federal government for how many years now? Sounds to me that you've been part of this failure and let this invasion happen in the first place. You need to resign.

[speekinout]

Landscaping services sure hit a note here! Our community association has to hire a Landscaping service for community property -

Last year, we switched services because we found one who would promise an English speaking crew chief. We got one last year. I guess he went off to the next community who wanted one and hadn't signed a contract.
Are these workers illegal? I don't know. Probably. The unemployment rate here is too low, and anyone who was legal and can speak English wouldn't be doing landscaping.

Planned communities with community property are a rather new concept - maybe starting in the 60's. Landscaping one's own yard is one thing, but who's going to volunteer for the community entrance or the community green?

[Mulder]

. "It is in our national interest to bring the 8 to 12 million undocumented immigrants out of the shadows and allow them an opportunity to become citizens of this great nation," McCain said at the annual conference of the National Council of La Raza.

Isn't this conspiracy to undermine the immigration laws of the United States?

Also, it's interesting to note that this traitor wants to put Americans in jail for having a flash suppressor on their rifles, but has no problem with legalizing illegals.

[Bikers4Bush]

No guest workers and no amnesty. Get the hell out of our country and apply to come here the right way!

[WhiteGuy]

"These are all good proposals but we won't act because we're in an election year," he said. "

Translation:

After the election, we're ramming this down your throats.

[paulsy]

"There's a demand for people to fill jobs that Americans won't do." "They've repeated this lie so often that they believe it now."

We own a cleaning company in Texas, and unlike many of our competitors, we don't employ illegal immigrants. But I'll tell you what, it is hard to find Americans who will do the work for what we can afford to pay. We do pay high relative to other cleaning companies, and we are able to do so because we are not a franchise. But we go head to head with companies who pay illegals less, and those companies can go in at a very competitive price, even with their franchise fees. If the government cracks down on illegal immigration, other (franchise) companies would have to hire American workers at a higher price and they'd loose business to people like me. Tough regulation would probably damage the cleaning franchise industry, but the cleaning needs still exist, so it would be replaced by a more expensive cleaning industry that would raise pay standards and bring more jobs to Americans.

I'll say, that I feel bad for the illegals, because they are being taken advantage of by my competitors. I know who they are, I have conversations with them, they know they are being taken advantage of. Each one of them I have talked to totally appreciate this country - far more than people like Michael Moore. They appreciate the opportunities, and they work their a$$es off, way better workers than the Americans.

But unfortunately, much of their money goes back to Mexico; and I don't think they fully understand (or care about) the long-term costs they will bring to future generations here. And wealth that should be staying here is being funneled across the border by workers who earn several dollars less per hour than their American counterparts.

[usurper]

But one feature of the old program is that these workers did not get on a path to citizenship, and they had to go back home between seasons if they were seasonal workers. They couldn't bring family members who didn't work. I think that's an important feature of any workable guest worker program.

I agree and the last version of Bush’s reform package called for exactly that kind of a program W/ a limited amnesty for those already here.

Any new guest worker program must not contain provisions for eventual adjustment of status to that of a permanent resident. To do so completely undercuts the legal system of immigration. If Mexicans want to come up and provide seasonal work in a guest worker program I am for it, but they will have to apply of an immigrant visa and wait in line with everyone else if they want to become a permanent resident.

If they combine a guest worker program with permanent residency then it is in essence NOT a temporary worker program at all and will lead to greater illegal immigration.

[jimt]

How many potholes would simply not be fixed if we had to pay twice the cost? How many more dents in cars would go unfixed if the cost were quadrupled?

Perhaps you haven't noticed we are already paying those increased costs in the form of higher taxes.

Illegals are a huge drain on social services, what with medical, housing, food, utility, transportation, education and other subsidies ad nauseum. Not to mention the costs of crime (see LA's most wanted list) and uninsured illegals driving junkpiles and fleeing wrecks.

No thanks. I don't patronize services who use my tax dollars to subsidize their payroll.

[speekinout]

We agree. I thought Bush's last proposal was a great start on discussions leading to a very satisfactory guest worker program. Especially since his limited amnesty was for allowing the ones here illegally to become legal guest workers, and not legal citizens. But too much of the opposition, from both sides of the fence, just refuse to discuss it.

A lot of the guest workers really don't want to move their families here. They can support them better at home with the earnings they get here. If they have freedom of travel between home and here, they are more likely to leave their families home.

[usurper]

A lot of the guest workers really don't want to move their families here.

Exactly, the last big reform was flawed because it forced aliens who applied for amnesty to remain in the US or run the risk of abandoning and loosing their newly acquired legal status. This forced once seasonal workers to establish permanent residences and to bring (illegally) their families so they could be together.

Another flaw was that once they acquired legal status they could move into better, higher paying jobs in construction etc. This recreated opportunities at the bottom of the pay levels into which a new wave of illegal aliens rushed. This is quite predictable and will happen again and again if real reform is not implemented.

[speekinout]

the last big reform was flawed because it forced aliens who applied for amnesty to remain in the US or run the risk of abandoning and loosing their newly acquired legal status.

That wasn't a reform of the guest worker program. It was an effort to deal with the illegals we got as a result of dismantling the guest worker program.

I am convinced that we need a guest worker program, and not an easier way for these people to become citizens.
We mostly talk about Mexicans and other S. Americans, but when the guest worker program was in effect, the East Coast attracted many from Caribbean islands, particularly Jamaica and Barbados.