Posted on 06/29/2004 9:27:45 AM PDT by ksen
For gutless, spineless cowards the 2nd Amendment won't be of any use at all. Do you understand now, or should I draw you a picture?
Would the fact that most people don't care be a reason why there won't be one?
I see people calling themselves Conservative, approving of something that is very non-Conservative, simply because it's being done by a Republican. They would be pulling their hair out and calling every talk show and firing off e-mails left and right if it was a democrat doing the same thing. This tells me that the statists will win in the end.
We've also been going down the slope so slowly and piecemeal, that hardly anybody has noticed or cares.
You might very well be correct. But it is dead certain it isn't going to be a big shooting war.
Anyone actually wanting a successful revolution better start thinking more like a CIA man with the task of tipping over a bannana republic (which we are on the road to becoming) than like a yahoo militia dude.
If we can do it to Iran, we can do it here at home.
Breaking up an IRS employee's marriage with false rumors of infidelity, or narcing on his kids' pot smoking will do much more to strike a blow than any gun.
Would the fact that most people don't care be a reason why there won't be one?
I see people calling themselves Conservative, approving of something that is very non-Conservative, simply because it's being done by a Republican. They would be pulling their hair out and calling every talk show and firing off e-mails left and right if it was a democrat doing the same thing. This tells me that the statists will win in the end.
We've also been going down the slope so slowly and piecemeal, that hardly anybody has noticed or cares.
There won't be one now for the same reason there wasn't one then. "Revolutions" can only occur in certain environments, and we don't happen to live in one of them.
When you have that sort of environment (either a small banana republic, or a large patriarchy), revolutions are inevitable. See Cuba, South America, Africa, Southeast Asia, Russia, 1600s England, and 1700s America for examples.
What we have now is an effective "bread and circuses" environment. "The masses" are pacified by ready availabilty of food, alcohol, and entertainment.
"Revolution" is anathema to this sort of environment.
What we will have is as inevitable as "revolution" in a a "revolution-friendly" environment, but it won't be "revolution".
It will be far worse, IMO.
If you're sitting in anticipation of a "revolution", I'd suggest revising your expectations. Something like the Fall of the Roman Empire is much more likely, IMO.
If we can do it to Iran, we can do it here at home.
Breaking up an IRS employee's marriage with false rumors of infidelity, or narcing on his kids' pot smoking will do much more to strike a blow than any gun.
Go ahead and try it. Jim Bell would probably enjoy the company of a new cell-mate.
In other words, it's been tried.
Some days you're the windshield, some days you're the fly. It's hard to change things to ensure that most of your days are spent as the windshield -- especially if you have a conscience. But, it's pretty easy to ensure that you "embrace the fly experience". I'd say you've got a good head start on it if you're serious about the stuff you're talking about above.
And some folks just stay silent for fear of being labeled as "tin-foil hatters" or "Nazis" (Insert Godwins Law here). Or in some laughable cases (read: threads) - folks being labeled as "terrorists", or supporters thereof.
The last one never fails to crack me up. And sadden me at the same time.
There is nothing (very) illegal about gaslighting government drones, or narcing on them.
Didn't the guy you mentioned threaten people with dumbass militia "people's tribunals?" That's exactly the sort of thing I'm arguing against.
Thuggery and violence have their place, but only sub rosa and deniable. The point is not to make a point, but to be effective.
That, your ego, and any impetus to "take credit" are all things you have to leave behind to be effective.
Not that I'm aware of.
He did stake his claim to fame for his "assassination politics" essay (or "essay" as the case may be).
But, that's not why he's doing time.
He's doing time for "doing research" on gov't agents, etc., along the lines of the stuff you described. I seriously suggest you spend some quality time reading up on his case rather than simply blowing it off as "dumbass tribunals" or somesuch, which tells me that you didn't examine his case.
That's exactly the sort of thing I'm arguing against.
Well, if you'd read up on his case, you'd find that there's not too much of a hair's difference between what he did, and what you argue for.
But go ahead, stake your own claim to fame, no skin off my nose.
That, your ego, and any impetus to "take credit" are all things you have to leave behind to be effective.
*sigh*
Paging George Santayana...
One guy I knew is dead, allegedly of his own hand: Abbie Hoffman. He promoted the same kind of stuff you promote.
I didn't buy into it then, and I don't buy into it now. But hey, go ahead, don't let me talk you out of testing that brick wall with your 60MPH Mark I Brainpan.
The only thing I'll add is that it's chilling to see the conscience characterized as an impediment to some form of imagined success in life.
Absolutely chilling.
And no, I won't be parting with mind, so please feel free to start the revolution without me, OK?
If you're really dead set on living out the fantasy you espouse, you might live a tad longer if you decide to experience it as a spectator rather than cannon fodder.
Soak up some fiction. I'd suggest "The Postman" -- and, the book it was shamelessly lifted from, "Lucifer's Hammer".
Buy a mule. Train yourself to play the guitar and tell stories.
Or, keep playing the "revolution" game, and you'll probably live a long, healthy life. After all, they do provide free health care in the federal prison system.
And that's just where you're gonna end up if you keep on posting the kind of stuff you're posting.
Who knows? Maybe you and Jim Bell can strike up a friendship.
I'm scratching my head in wonderment, trying to figure out what it is that causes people -- in small numbers, to be sure -- to get the "revolution" bug up their ass every three or four decades.
One other "literature" suggestion (in scare-quotes because as literature, it truly sucks): Abbie's "Steal This Book".
You can google it up and read it for free.
Now, as you're reading it, you'll likely be cheering him on, congratulating him for being such a "patriot".
But try to restrain the urge.
Remember, he was a communist.
Wouldn't hurt for you to google up George Santayana either, for that matter. His famous quote should be emblazoned... well, everywhere, now that I think about it.
I gotta call myself out on a freudian slip!
I said, "And no, I won't be parting with mind"
I meant to say, "And no, I won't be parting with mine"
But it plays well either way in context.
You're taking Bill Clinton's word for anything?
BTW...I have a copy of " STEAL THIS BOOK" and you're right about that too. :-)
There will be NO revolution because people say things,hiding behind a screen/keboard,that they will not do in real life.If there wasn't an uprising during the 8 long years of the Clinton presidency,then NOTHING will motivate anyone to do anything.
This is real life,we're supposedly talking about,not some game.And your examples of what could be done are ridiculous.
So were the 60's revolutionaries real life. They were, in fact Communists, or dupes of Communists. They were, in fact, exploited by agents of the Soviet Union, knowingly or not.
And you give them too little credit. They almost did take over. Bill and Hillary are among the last echos of that attempt. I have no opinion on whether Bill Clinton, Sandy Berger, Jamie Gorelick and the rest are actually agents of influence, but I am damn certain the young Bill did not spend all that time touring Eastern Europe when he did without there having been an attempt to recruit him.
The Cold War was in large measure a spy war, and the objective was to foment revolution. It so happens Reagan and Bush the elder (notably a former DCI) won, and rolled up Eastern Europe and parts of the Soviet Union in a series of brilliant and almost bloodless revolutions. And I can tell you from firsthand accounts of people currently in government in those countries, that wasn't done without the CIA being there.
Destroying the morale of JBTs is possible. One example is that the universal revulsion at the TSA means TSA functions are now being reprivatized. IRS agents DO suffer discrimination. They even intermarry because humans won't touch them. The government could be forced to an NRST because they can't hire competent IRS people, especially now that they are inbred, too. M. Stanley Dukakis is one of two remaining Amtrak board members. Amtrak could be disbanded because nobody wants it on their resume.
Good point. The fact that a Republican is in office will cause those of us who are the most Conservative to be even more complacent.
The old "well, if things get REALLY bad then we'll start talking about doing something - maybe voting for a third party or trying to run other candidates" routine.
Yeah it cracks me up to. I'm not so much sad as I see it bieng a reflection of the way things are - it's somebody who believes what they are told to believe and tries to surround themselves with others who think just like them.
When I see somebody do the "you don't agree with our President/party, you must support terrorism or want us all to get killed by the terrorists" bit, I want to reply back in all honesty and seriousness and ask them if their parents know they are using the internet unsupervised. That would be a personal attack though, and I try to refrain and keep from lowering myself to that level (although I do give in to temptation here and there).
As soon as I see somebody doing that bit, I know they've lost their argument.
Pointing out that you see the Constitution and what this nation stands for/used to stand for, as being more important than any single man or the party really gets them irritated.
I wanna bring up something that bugs the hell out of me - people who still insist that Vietnam was a waste, that it was not worth it.
My opinion - it fits into what you are talking about eno_, in regards to the Cold War as a whole, is that Vietnam was a major piece of the whole thing.
Many won't think that deeply, but between Vietnam and Korea and Afghanistan, we kept communism in check in Asia and the Middle East, even if we ultimately turned Vietnam over to the communists, and Afghanistan (what became the Taliban) spawned 9/11.
People do not realize just how much in the way of Russian and Chinese resources we tied up in those conflicts (and technically Afghanistan/USSR was not even our conflict). If they had just rolled through those countries decades ago, God only knows what the world would be like today.
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