Posted on 06/27/2004 6:26:08 PM PDT by aculeus
Violence is not the Answer!
It's all about oil! No drilling in wilderness areas!
A mountain lion (or any cat for that matter) when hunting does not declare its presence, attacks at a very high speed in total silence, and is built to perform the maximum amount of damage in the minimum amount of time. This lady, even if she had a sidearm, would still not have had a chance. Even you would not have had a chance ....if you were jogging and the cat came at you. Typical large cat hunting technique is to come from behind, or from an oblique angle, at high speed .....and the reason why you wouldn't be able to do a thing is you would never know what hit you.
Now, a gun would be good because in the throes of the struggle you might be able to take it out and shoot the cat. And I'd personally always carry a weapon when hiking in wild country, but the reason would be to protect myself from bears (and funny people LOL), as well as to have something to use if a cougar attacked me. But it would not be to 'prevent a cougar attack' because i would know an attack was in progress before eighteen claws were lacerating me a new one. The gun would be to end it ....but not to stop it. You would be as injured as the lady was.
I know some people who used to hunt lions (real lions in Africa when it was still allowed everywhere), and they used to tell me they would have their double-barreled rifle (not a shotgun ....just a rifle with two barrels because other designs tended to jam due to dirt, and you don't want a fouled gun when a 500 pound lion is coming at you at 50 miles an hour). Anyways, they were telling me the lion would be coming straight for them, and it was hard to line up a shot due to the speed and dexterity. Itr was even worse when it came to leopards, because even though they were smaller than lions you literally did not see a marauding leopard until it was literally next to you. Most of them feared hunting normal leopards over normal lions (with the normal being there to distinguish from the 'abnormal' maneaters, which were true horrors.)
A cougar is obviously not a real lion (and not even a leopard) .....and they are much smaller, lighter and have a much (by far) limited lethality. But it is still a cat, still very fast, and if it is coming after you you wouldn't know what was happening before the cat had performed facial and torso surgery on you.
However, carrying a gun is still important. It can mean the difference between getting seriously messed up and getting killed. But the lady would still have gotten her body ripped up.
She would never have seen the cat coming at her. As fighter pilots say, it is what you don't see that kills you. No cougar that is hunting you will make noises and announce itself. It will strike fast and hard, from behind (or an oblique angle), at great velocity coupled by its weight (100 pounds multiplied by the speed adds to great impact force), and with claws flying. A gun allows you to end the fight (especially if you are alone) ....but a gun will not prevent an attack, and it will not prevent the cat from literally tearing you. The damage a large cat can do in one second is prodigious.
That really depends on how much rolling around they are doing, how well you can shoot, and having the guts to get low and close to clean up the shot angle. If they got close enough to use a knife, they could have used a gun. Good thing she had the right kind of people with her.
That really depends on how much rolling around they are doing, how well you can shoot, and having the guts to get low and close to clean up the shot angle. If they got close enough to use a knife, they could have used a gun. Good thing she had the right kind of people with her.
The damage a large cat can do in one second is prodigious.
That's no lie. My mom sent me an article from her local paper (a small Rocky Mountain town where I also lived for 20 yrs) about a fella who tracked a bull elk in the snow for the fun of it. At one point the bull took a turn off the trail straight uphill. It seemed strange to him that it would based on the terrain. Shortly thereafter the tracks came back down the hill at some speed paralleled by lion tracks. Not too far from that he found this mature six pointer assuming snow temperature under some pine duff and snow. This bull with a six by six rack probably weighed about 700 pounds and showed no signs of disease or winter stress. The lion, as you say, likely weighed in about 100 lb.s. The bull wasn't entirely surprised either as the tracks evidenced the chase and takedown. The whole article was accompanied by pictures.
The DOW officer who commented on it said it was unusual, the lion must have been a bit desperate, but not unheard of. The impressive thing is that the lion did it. I watched a small doe deer almost kill a coyote once so I think it's safe to say a mature bull elk w/rack is not something to mess with.
Well that all sounds interesting in theory, but here is an actual example that shows that your theory is bogus
Cougar Has Claws, Hiker Has Pistol (Orange Co., Cal)
Cody said he was out for an afternoon jog near Modjeska Grade Road and Santiago Truck Trail when the cougar leaped onto the trail about 20 feet in front of him.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1136276/posts
The cat jumped down "a 5-foot embankment onto a pretty narrow trail," he told KCAL-TV Channel 9 news. The animal, he said, "stopped and stood there on the trail looking at me."
Having a cat present itself as a target out in front of you is about as likely as winning the lotto. Drawing your gun, spinning around to face a cat attacking from behind, shooting and hitting a charging cat and achieving lethal shot placement is even less likely. (Assuming you heard the cat coming.)
Oh, so now my theory is 'bogus.' That's funny, Max Combined. Why? Because if you look at the vast majority of big cat attacks, they all come from the back or from an oblique angle at high speed. The example you gave was not of a cat attacking a human, but a cat that was probably trying to scare the person from its territory. A hunting cat doesn't leap in front of a person (or animal) and start doing theatrics. Come on sir ....that is common sense.
Apart from common sense, look at current data. In all continents with large feline predators (be they large catus like the cougar, or ture Felis like the Tiger, Lion, Leopard and Jaguat), ALL ATTACKS ON HUMANs (and animals) that are part of hunting/killing come with stealth and speed. In India for example the natives wear masks at the back of their heads to 'confuse' tigers (although when a tiger is a true man eater, instead of just an opportunist, masks don't help). In Africa leopard attacks come from above, the sides, or behind. Lion attacks from an oblique angle. And all the Puma attacks I've seen reports of come from behind or an angle.
The one you reported (and used to say my 'interesting theories' are 'bogus,' was a cat trying to frighten someone away from its territory. Now, it would still have attacked the person (and it is good he had a weapon), but it was not hunting him.
You will never head a cat that is hunting you. Never. And people have died because my 'bogus but interesting theories' came true. Thousands of people have been killed around the world by cats, and even today hundreds die in remote areas of India and Africa (and every now and then a lone jogger in wilderness trail in America).
And virtually all of those attacks (removing the ones where the cat is protecting its young ....in which case it will make noise before attacking ....or defending its territory and/or kill) are done using what you describe as 'bogus theories.'
Again ...use your logic. Why would a hunting cat leap '20 feet in front' of a person? Even common sense would show that cat was doing everything but hunting (my guess would be territory). Seriously ....this is common sense! Look at what the guy said again: The animal, he said, "stopped and stood there on the trail looking at me." What cat hunts by leaping 20 feet in front of its target, stopping, and standing there looking at the target? Unless there is some type of Feline Hypnotism from Thundera or something where the cat mesmerizes the target to come hither!?!?
And if you don't want to accept that, do a simple search of how big cats hunt. Any big cat ...take your pick (cougar, jaguar, lion, leopard, tiger). All of them (including smaller cats like Ocelots, Servals ...even house cats) are built for speed and stealth ....and they all hunt the same way ....with speed and stealth. Oh ....and one more thing about my 'bogus theories.' Some of the ex-hunters I've talked to lost friends to those bogus theories. For some strange reasons those cats did not leap 20 feet in front of them and take a kungfu stance before attacking. Beats me why ....but maybe it is because the cats were trying to kill those men. Again, you only know you are being attacked (attacked ...not warned off nor threatened) when the cat impacts. Good luck to you if you expect that (if you hike, and if you hike in cougar country) that any malevolent puma will leap 20 feet in front of your trail and lick its paws while it waits for you to draw your gun, aim, and drop it. If you are lucky you will encounter some cat trying to fend off its territory, in which case that may happen and you'll get a good trophy and a great story. If you are unlucky the cat will be trying to get meat, in which case I pray you manage to get your gun and shoot the cat before it does too much damage to you.
Maybe when you read my post you thought I was anti-gun totting in nature or something like that. I am not. I even said when hiking i would carry a weapon ....but to use against 'funny' people (trying to harm me) and bears. When it comes to cougars the gun would be to end the attack ....not prevent one. Again, check for yourself how cougars attack.
Looks like you know a lot more about the subject than I do. Thanks for taking the time and trouble to set me straight. I am sorry I called your post bogus. That was obviously the wrong word and much to strong.
Accept my apology as well then, sir. My reply to you was much too acerbic for my liking ....I could have made my point with resorting to base stuff like 'cats using hypnotism' and such cr@p.
Ping
And for big bears, bear spray is statistically far superior to a hand gun. More approved in campgrounds too.
And guides often use 12 ga. with buck for back up on dangerous game.
Most attacks on me or my family have been by dogs. (we get out a lot)
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.