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To: wagglebee

[RANT ON]

Mishap investigations are “privileged” and therefore anyone participating in the investigation are not to discuss or release the information to the public. This is done to ensure the most accurate and fair investigations---NOT establish blame. That is done under a separate investigation.

The best investigators are those that built the jets, engines, airframes, avionics, training people, examiners, etc, and they send reps to discover what went wrong (if anything). They do this to make sure they can fix the problem so it doesn’t happen again. The USAF takes this very seriously. We don’t want to lose ANY jets or ANY crew. All the USAF wants to do is to fix the problem.

Absent the privilege status the various builders would become liable for all sorts of civil judgments and the investigations would never go anywhere, as a circle-the-wagons mentality would take over. We would ALL lose.

Therefore, some pathologist being told he isn’t supposed to discuss the findings of the mishap board is no great shakes and not “highly unusual.” It is SOP, nothing more. ALL members of the mishap team receive this instruction. Period. They simply have to know the rules. Some pay attention to the rules, some don’t. Those that don’t get warned and if need be, punished. No one is trying to cover up anything.

In a mishap I have seen bodies damaged in ways that make no sense what-so-ever. The G forces and fragmentation due to deceleration can cause all sots of weird damage. Add to this the fact that you have a jet break up during a crash and it is very problematic to establish as fact this piece did this and that piece did that. Jets break up in ways that are countless. So, you make your best guess based upon what you can prove and from reasonable analysis.

Some pathologist making statements of possible causes is okay as long as you remember the guy is making broad statements of possibilities. He is not being declarative. Therefore he is not offering well established FACT. He is making conjecture. Is it possible space aliens zapped Brown with a .45 laser? Yes. Okay, I say space aliens did the dirty deed. Prove me wrong. You can’t.

We didn’t own the approach; we hadn’t certified it and some Men in Black roaming around the crash site before everyone else and murdering people? Gee, the jet is flying at 3 miles a minute at point of impact and the MIB were able to pin-point the impact well before it happened? The MIB were able to engineer a scenario that fooled the crew to fly exactly the parameters that the MIB wanted? Ensuring the crew ignored all on-board instrumentation and sensors and flew a sloppy approach?

The crew was over-tasked, behind the jet (and airspeed control is the first thing to fall out of your instrument cross-check when that happens. . .that is FACT), and the crew, sadly, did not execute the MAP when they knew they should have (mind control by the MIB?).

Come on, you guys have GOT to be smarter than this conspiracy nonsense. My God, to arrange a crash that murdered countless innocent people, wrecked a valuable VIP jet, kill all those that happened by or “saw” anything, control the air crew to ensure they didn’t execute the MAP when they knew they should have, use hundreds of people on the payroll to do the deed. . .sheesh. But then again, there was a jury that believed hundreds of LA PD officers conspired on the spot to frame OJ. . .

Look, if Clintoon wanted to murder the man, why didn’t he do so in a way that had the guy die from an apparent heart attack as he watched the evening news. If you can arrange a crash of a jet it would be child's play to put a little lethal impossible-to-detect drug in his evening milk and cookies.

But then again, who’s to say it didn’t happen exactly like you guys think—a vast conspiracy to murder Brown, kill an entire SAM air crew, other “witnesses” and cover it all up. Proving a negative is hard to do, if not impossible.

Yup, the best conspiracy is the one with NO proof because, you see, the absence of proof is the best proof of just how good the cover-up/conspiracy is. No proof IS proof, and the wackier the conspiracy the better, because, after all, who would make up something involving hundreds and choreography beyond anything like we have seen before. . .all on a moments notice. I.e., What if the weather was good during the approach? In that case must abort the mission and set the whole thing up again someplace else, short time and with no coordination.

Cheers.

[Rant off. . .I will not be replying to any posts from this thread. Why? Because arguing conspiracy theory is like wrestling a pig. You both get dirty but the pig likes it. . .ya’all being the pig, mind you. No offense intended.]


131 posted on 06/28/2004 2:48:41 PM PDT by Gunrunner2
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To: Gunrunner2

What is the chance that a plane flies into a mountain by accident and the radar technician involved happens to commit suicide immediately thereafter and Shelly Kelley walks onto a helicopter but is dead when it lands and the X-rays of Brown's head disappear?

Did any of these not happen? Are these likely events? Do you have an explanation?


132 posted on 06/28/2004 6:57:20 PM PDT by Tymesup
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To: Gunrunner2

"Look, if Clintoon wanted to murder the man, why didn’t he do so in a way that had the guy die from an apparent heart attack as he watched the evening news. If you can arrange a crash of a jet it would be child's play to put a little lethal impossible-to-detect drug in his evening milk and cookies. "

Why do organized crime or Columbian drug lords use obvious methods when eliminating undesirables? Maybe Clinton is sending a message that no one is safe if they cross him.


136 posted on 06/28/2004 7:11:28 PM PDT by Tymesup
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To: Gunrunner2
THE BOTCHED RON BROWN INVESTIGATION - Kathleen Janoski
You can dismiss anything if you don't bother to research it.
142 posted on 06/29/2004 5:59:53 AM PDT by TigersEye (Intellectuals only exist if you think they do!)
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To: Gunrunner2
Sroll down to "The Crash"

According to the Air Force, the only other instance in recent memory when the safety board was skipped followed the crash of two Army Blackhawk helicopters in Iraq in the wake of the Gulf War. In essence, the Air Force assumed the crash was an accident from the beginning.

Air Force spokesman Maj. Ed Worley said the safety board was skipped because of its secret nature and because the Air Force wanted to make "full public disclosure as soon as possible" to the public and Congress. "This was an odd case," Worley explained. "We were flying the secretary of commerce, and a decision was made early on that for the public interest we would conduct an accident, not a safety board. That was our overriding concern and we were not overlooking something."

143 posted on 06/29/2004 6:12:22 AM PDT by TigersEye (Intellectuals only exist if you think they do!)
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To: Gunrunner2
A little more.

In another anomaly, Hurd said that an Indian medicine bag given to Brown by his girlfriend Yolanda Hill as a good luck charm was removed from a diplomatic pouch and destroyed. There's no explanation for why this happened. Hurd said a Maryland private investigator had gotten his hands on a government document indicating that a top-secret investigation had been conducted into Brown's death. But there's no indication of what they found. One thing is certain: the crash was not due to bad weather. The Croatian ground controller who may have been responsible for diverting the plane into a mountain allegedly killed himself before he was questioned. The death takes on added significance because of the belief that Brown, one of Bill Clinton's close associates, was about to cooperate with an investigation of corruption in the Clinton Administration.

For her part, Kathleen Janoski said she was isolated, relieved of her duties, and left to sit at a desk with nothing to do. Her colleagues were afraid to be seen with her. She said her faith in the Navy and its integrity was badly shaken. The chain of command failed her. But she has no regrets and is proud of working with Chris Ruddy to bring the facts about this bungled death investigation to the public's attention.

144 posted on 06/29/2004 6:19:52 AM PDT by TigersEye (Intellectuals only exist if you think they do!)
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