Behind all this hand-wringing is the concept of that booger-man "influence". Even Christians, especially those who are raising children, know that the culture can "influence" us and children especially are susceptible. They fear that degrading legal institutions will degrade the general cultural influences and thus degrade their children's lives.
There is obviously an "influence" from the culture, and children are obviously more susceptible than adults. But the New Testament thinks differently:
The culture is ASSUMED to belong to the devil, and it is ASSUMED the believers will not let themselves or their families follow it. It is simply part of the expectation of the Christian walk that you do not live like "they" do . End of hand-wringing.
Also, many freepers suffer under the delusion that the evolution of law in America does not reflect the underlying evolution of culture. The legal debate is the tip of the iceberg of the degradation of culture. You do not change cultures by arguments.
Wilberforce is a bad example. In his case, the culture that was passing away (Christianity) and the culture that was coming to be (modern liberalism, in the classic sense) BOTH contained assumptions which indicted slavery. The two cultures were adversaries in certian ways but allies on that issue.
We are now a stage beyond Wilberforce, and the culture which is still passing away (Christianity) and the second culture (classical liberalism) which is now ALSO passing away -- BOTH face a supplanter with a level of hostility neither of them have seen before in hedonistic, pagan pragmatism.
We need to understand the times. The historic pattern is cycling over again. You do not win arguments with hedonistic paganism. You bear witness-- by superior virtue, seal it by the blood of martyrs, then send in the apologists to backfill the cosmological explanation for the moral force which has stunned the pagans.
This is about to be a time for the confessing church. The time when the hostility of the world will cull out of the church all the nominal believers. The battleground will clarify: there will be some test, in some form, of who is lord: is it Jesus, or the State?
The American legal system is lost. The battle has shifted.
Forvige me if I ignore the rest of your post. I'm not interested in your selfishness. Your marriage may be intact, but the marraiges of those that follow, including your children's, will not.
Just look at how the free love movement impacted marriage. It did not change my parents'. It did change mine and has had a tremendous impact on my children's, nieces', nephews', etc.
Shalom.
Excellent post! The arguments on this thread can be divided among those who strongly still hold to the Creational cultural mandate which requires Image bearers to be "fruitful and subdue" the earth and our more baptistic FRiends that seek to seperate themselves from the world. Finding the correct balance is subject to knowing the times and being wise as serpents and gentle as doves.
Tell that to Ronald Reagan. You may not change the culture with arguments alone, but surely reason does have a role to play.
I've noticed a contingent of Christian conservatives on FR with views similar to yours. I would ask you the following questions. Can you ever completely divorce morality from law? Doesn't law have the ability to instruct as well as coerce?
"No. No law about someone else's marriage can hurt mine. Only my behavior or my wife's behavior can do that. "
Nothing done now will harm any marriage existing today. The effect will be seen in the following generations after children have been raised to believe same-sex marriage is good and acceptable and that marriage in general is intended merely for they own personal gratification, to be abandoned at a whim.
Try it this way: "As a Black man, I'm not really diminished by racism up here in Chicago, because none of my neighbors are racist."
Or even better, "As long as my wife and I believe we're equal, what's the problem with Jim Crow?"
Or better still, "As long as I'm using real money, it doesn't matter how much counterfeit money there is."