Posted on 06/19/2004 8:30:52 PM PDT by take
Chinese exporters of furniture face tariffs from U.S.
WASHINGTON — The U.S. Commerce Department slapped tariffs of as much as 198 percent on imported bedroom furniture from China, a decision that could cut the $1 billion a year of those imports and may raise prices for consumers.
Most of the largest exporters of furniture, representing 80 percent of U.S. imports, will pay tariffs of 24 percent or less, with 82 of the companies paying an 11 percent tariff, according to the Commerce Department.
"The duties could have been a whole lot worse," Mike Veitenheimer, a vice president for furniture retailer Bombay Co., which opposed the duties, said in an interview. Still, the thousands of companies not singled out will pay the 198 percent, and they "are going to be put out of business."
The tariffs begin next week. Yesterday's decision is preliminary and there are still two more rulings needed to formalize the tax, which would last for five years or more.
"The illegal dumping by the Chinese has devastated the U.S. bedroom industry," said John Bassett, chief executive of Vaughan-Bassett Furniture.
Since President Bush took office three years ago, some 35,000 wood-furniture workers, or 28 percent of the work force, have lost their jobs, the U.S. companies say.
Opponents of the protection, including nearly half the U.S. furniture industry, say that the tariffs won't restore U.S. workers' jobs, although they might help shift production from China to Vietnam or other Asian nations.
The Bush administration said that yesterday's ruling shows that it's cracking down on trade it labels illegal.
"We've had a lot of Chinese cases and we expect to have more," said James Jochum, assistant secretary of commerce for import administration.
China has denied unfairly selling its goods.
"We sold furniture to the U.S. based on fair market practices," Cao Yingchao, secretary general of China National Furniture Association in Beijing, said before the decision. "We deny any charge that we sold our wooden furniture in the U.S. at below cost."
He said he would urge Chinese producers to appeal.
Bedroom-furniture imports from China increased 121 percent from 2000 to 2002, and another 54 percent in the first six months of last year from 2002. Furniture makers such as Bassett, Stanley and Hooker Furniture say that increase threatens to put them out of business.
Imports of furniture from China and other low-wage countries rose to 33 percent in 2001 from 1 percent in 1972, according to a study by Andrew Bernard, an economist at Dartmouth University. They are likely to increase to 57 percent by 2011, he said.
58 - "the government is stealing your tax dollars and paying FOLKS NOT TO PRODUCE and keeping agriculture prices artificially high."
Food in the US, with our system, costs about 10-20% of our earnings. In most other countries, particularly 3rd world countries, it costs about 40-50% of their earnings.
59 -
"1) One does not "steal" profits, one "makes" profits. "
My profit comes from my job. When you send my job to China, you steal my profit.
"2) Cost of doing business is often too high in the U.S. "
So, do business overseas, and live overseas, and penetrate their markets. Profits and sales are too easy here in the US. Go compete where you have a level playing field. You free-traitors want to have it both ways, stealing workers profits while taking workers markets. The old 'company store'.
"3) Workers don't 'own markets' as you imply, they are free to participate in them as consumers."
Nor do corporations. In fact, corporations are creations of the government, which is created by the workers/citizens of this country. As citizens, we have the right to protect 'our' markets, and this is plainly written in the constitution. You free-traitor corporations have no 'rights', except as granted by us the citizens.
"4) Us 'free trader types' prefer govt to stay out of the price-fixing, wage-fixing business in the first place."
Then go to another country, where they have no laws - you pick - how about Hong-Kong? Look what happened to all those happy free-traders. It costs money to support our republic, and you must contribute to it rather than steal from it, if you wish to be a citizen.
"5) Whether a foreign (Chinese) company is owned by govt is beside the point. No one is being 'forced' to buy the products. They sell it, we buy it. Or not buy it."
Go live in an anarchy - then you will be happy. This country is not an anarchy, but it will be if you free-traitors succeed.
Why should US workers open their markets to you free-traitors, when all you wish to do is steal their profits?
You are missing a very important point in this discussion. It is not low wages that drive companies overseas. In this country, we automate to overcome high labor costs. Then we compete and the workers in the factory make a good wage.
We have been doing this since Henry Ford first showed us the way.
The point you miss is that is all the other costs of doing business in the U.S. that are the real benefit in setting up overseas (places like China). The labor savings are not the incentive to make the move.
Look at all the regulation heaped on business in the U.S. Look at the Human Resources law, hazard communication compliance, Accounting requirements, insurances like liability insurance.
My gosh, at the factory I run in China I can nearly cover all my G&A expense for just what the liability insurance used to cost us. I know, I have the budget I ran on in the U.S. and the budget I run on in China.
The best example I can give you is when the corporate office called me and asked why I was not putting in a piece of equipment that is a routine installation for our industry. The answer, we did not need to. It did not pay. The amortization schedule did not work.
Yes, we just used more workers. But, not more than we had in the U.S. That machine replaced workers in the U.S.
You really need to stop thinking it is to save on labor that companies move overseas. Of course, in labor intensive industries it has some benefit. But only partial. Even in these industries the major savings come from other areas.
Can I ask, have you ever had to comply with an OSHA paperwork regulation, just for example? Not an actual workplace safety issue, just the paperwork requirements. Say like a Lock Out/Tag Out written plan?
Prices WILL go up. Do you think a Chinese furniture manufacturer is simply going to eat the tariff? Not a chance. It gets passed on to the wholesaler and to the consumer. Tariffs are a political tactic to help a favored group or industry. The immediate effects may be desirable, but in the long run it's gonna hurt the broader economy. If American furniture producers are worried about the Chinese making a better product at a lower cost, then they should find a way to produce more efficiently. Otherwise, they should get out of the way and find a new line of work. Creating this tariff will likely result in job losses in other industries.
Well stated. One must sink or swim in a competitive market.
To be sure, an economically developing China is its best chance to defeat the old commie regime. Furniture sales are hardly a threat to national security, but missile technology sales like the Clinton/Gore regime pursued should be outlawed.
With all due respect sir, that is not logical. A wage comes from a job and a profit is what's left over after wages (and expenses) are paid. One does not "own" their job unless they are self-employed. The company or corporation owns the job and they have the right to send it overseas if they want to. And it is legal. Stealing is illegal and is not an option. However, I accept your premise that you have a disdain for this practice.
We as a nation must remain competitive or we will be doomed economically. You see what happened when the steel tariffs were slapped on to protect some steel jobs? Yep, it affected other industries and started costing jobs along with price increases in other sectors, and that really is the point. That is why the steel tariffs were dropped recently.
One final thought: Free and open trade does not necessarily mean it is justified to 'dump' in a particular market either. There has to be some balance. Furniture exports from 'traitors' in this country, is a multi-billion dollar industry, BTW.
Good question. I submit to you that in this instance if the business people in China don't continue to see a freer country, they'll leave China for greener pastures. Additionally I suspect over the coming decade or two China will fall apart just like the U.S.S.R did. At least that is my hope.
Bush doesn't believe in tariffs on goods from his permanent favorable trading partner. This is another steel-like tariff door buster sale for North Carolina only. Expires after election day.
63 - "Look at all the regulation heaped on business in the U.S. Look at the Human Resources law, hazard communication compliance, Accounting requirements, insurances like liability insurance.
My gosh, at the factory I run in China I can nearly cover all my G&A expense for just what the liability insurance used to cost us. I know, I have the budget I ran on in the U.S. and the budget I run on in China."
I realize you free-traitors hate any sort of regulation and protection of workers and customers. It cuts into your profits.
I know you are against retirement, job security, job safety, child labor laws, pollution control laws, in other words, anything which protects the workers and customers, and costs you money/energy.
Youall want no accountability for anything.
63 - "Can I ask, have you ever had to comply with an OSHA paperwork regulation, just for example? Not an actual workplace safety issue, just the paperwork requirements. Say like a Lock Out/Tag Out written plan?"
LOL - so you are even against LockOut/TagOut written plans.
ROTFLMAO - a good way to blow your butt and your plane/hangar/factory to kingdom come. Note my own page - military weapons controller, petro-chem industry, and NASA shuttle operations, and am I familiar with LockOut/TagOut?
Thank goodness for them, or many of us would have been blown to smitherenes, burnt to death or poisoned to death years ago. Look what happened at Bhopal India, where thousands died and tens of thousands were permanently injured, because of poor lockout tagout procedures.
Yes, OSHA does get out of hand sometimes (like the idiots who wrote 1 1/2 inches of regulations on toilet seats years ago), but, generally, it provides a good service and protects the workers (which I know you disagree with).
63 - "Yes, we just used more workers. But, not more than we had in the U.S. "
So, your Chinese workers were
1. More productive?
2. More skilled?
3. Working longer hours?
4. Less protected?
5. Healthier?
7. Less able to be sick?
or your factory was:
1. More automated?
2. More efficient?
3. Less regulated?
4. Less safe?
Why were you able to run your Chinese factory with fewer personnel than the US factory? We know the workers were paid far less.
64 - excellent points
"I am proudly protectionist, especially in relation to China. The threat from China is not superior quality as we faced from Japan. Rather, it is the fact that they have such a huge population that wage rates will never stabilize and will always prove to be an absolute advantage for them. The fact that the Chinese government also has little to no respect for intellectual property protection also makes invention and education, what free traders have always promised will create new good paying jobs as we export our present good paying jobs, less of a survival tool than before"
Putting American furniture manufacturers out of business means a lot of people will not have the money to buy any furniture.
Go sell your cheap furniture in China.
68 - "With all due respect sir, that is not logical. A wage comes from a job and a profit is what's left over after wages (and expenses) are paid. One does not "own" their job unless they are self-employed. The company or corporation owns the job and they have the right to send it overseas if they want to. And it is legal. Stealing is illegal and is not an option. "
My profit is what is left of my income after my expenses are paid, just like a business. The company has no rights, period, other than what we the people grant it. There is no 'right' to a business. There is no right to profit. There is no right to import. There is no right to our market.
We can make all the rules we wish to make to govern conduct of corporations. If we decide our jobs are more important than your profits, it is entirely legal and proper to prevent you from destroying our jobs and taking our markets.
If you wish to compete with cheap, unprotected labor, go compete where it is, not here in our backyard.
The job of the government is "to promote the general welfare", which includes our jobs, and believe it or not SOME of your profits. Taking unfair advantage, is 'stealing' in my book - a 'con' job.
I want you free-traitors to work really hard to deserve our market, which I will continue to attempt to deny to you, unless you play fair. It is supremely unfair and immoral to drive me and my family bankrupt by stealing my job because you wish higher profit.
Experience with the European Common market has proved that when economically unequal partners join, it doesn't work. Costs and standards of living vary in successfull trading markets within a magnitude of one, variations like we have with China - where the variation is 10 or 20 or 30 orders of magnitude variation, don't work.
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