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Space Vision Misunderestimated
Tech Central Station ^ | June 15, 2004 | Charles Rousseaux

Posted on 06/15/2004 2:59:12 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

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To: TigerTale

21 Jun is the first scheduled spaceflight. Can the second be 22 Jun or would it take longer to prepare the SpaceShipOne?


21 posted on 06/15/2004 10:50:25 AM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: RightWhale
You don't need to recognize asteroid mining as a valid business activity, someone else has already done that. But you need to recognize private property rights in outer space, and this has not been done.

There's no current business case for it, though -- venture capitalists are not likely to invest the multi-billions necessary to start asteroid mining from scratch, in the vague hope that their grandkids will possibly see a profit sometime within the next 50-75 years. Asteroid mining becomes possible and attractive when there is a space infrastructure already in place, and not before.

22 posted on 06/15/2004 10:54:21 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: RightWhale
The issue is private property.

Most definately.

23 posted on 06/15/2004 10:55:50 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: dead

We have to be polite and not say so outloud.


24 posted on 06/15/2004 10:56:44 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: TigerTale
"It's been a long road, gettin' from there to here..."

Yeah, where's Zephram (sp?) when you need him?

25 posted on 06/15/2004 10:56:50 AM PDT by tnlibertarian (This tagline under construction)
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To: r9etb

The US has already asserted sovereignty over all outer space, but they have failed to recognize private property rights there. Until private property rights are recognized in outer space, there will be no private investment in outer space resources. That is the true stopper, not lack of a business plan.


26 posted on 06/15/2004 10:57:38 AM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Bush said he would do something about private property in outer space. He has not. He must do this.


27 posted on 06/15/2004 10:58:34 AM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: r9etb
I personally think "privitization" is bound to fail except in cases where government R&D has already been done, and feasibility has been demonstrated. That's why a revitalized NASA is necessary. Space does offer tremendous potential, but it likewise requires the expenditure of tremendous resources -- amounts only a government can amass -- to make it work.

The vision presents the roadmap (so many haven't even bothered to read it)and it will take steady funding, not mega increases, to stay on that road. Building a spacefaring infrastructure is going to open it up all the way.

28 posted on 06/15/2004 11:01:05 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: TigerTale
Please note that Scaled Composites, like the other X-Prize contestants, is doing it's own R&D. Precisely because they don't have the sums to throw around that governments do, they have to find a different way--smaller, faster cheaper.

Other than the X-prize itself, Burt Rutan cannot make money on his SS-1. The "tourist" dollar will tap itself out pretty quickly, and there are a lot cheaper ways to do "useful" sub-orbital stuff.

And yes, I know the X-Prize is not an orbital shot. But I expect there will be an X2, and an X3. And at every stage, I imagine, there will be one or more Burt Rutans to take up the challenge.

There's the rub. Can there be an orbital X2? I really don't think his current design will carry over to one that can reach orbit, and survive re-entry multiple times -- there are some basic issues of scale and structure that will make the X2 far more complex and expensive than the SS-1. Would it be cost-effective to build and operate? Would it be reliable enough? Are there enough customers to support an X2-building company? These are real questions, and Rutan's design does not address them.

29 posted on 06/15/2004 11:01:11 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Agreed.


30 posted on 06/15/2004 11:02:31 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: RightWhale

From reports, it sounds like private enterprise is the goal - leading to a vigorous space economy.


31 posted on 06/15/2004 11:03:04 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: SunkenCiv

Learning how to live off planet will be the test. By mining and using resourses off-Earth, we will truly break free from the gravity well.


32 posted on 06/15/2004 11:05:44 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
private enterprise is the goal

Only in support of NASA programs, not in private development of outer space resources.

33 posted on 06/15/2004 11:08:57 AM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: RightWhale
The US has already asserted sovereignty over all outer space,

Oh? Would the Russians, and now the Chinese, recognize that sovereignty? In addition, we're also signatories to numerous Space Treaties governing various space activities. The most relevant would be the AGREEMENT GOVERNING THE ACTIVITIES OF STATES ON THE MOON AND OTHER CELESTIAL BODIES (1979).

but they have failed to recognize private property rights there.

Well, to be quite honest, there's no pressing need to do this, because the likelihood of it being an issue within our lifetimes is slim.

Until private property rights are recognized in outer space, there will be no private investment in outer space resources.

That's only the final hurdle. The first hurdle is to find a use for outer space resources. They don't make economic sense unless there is a use for them in space.

That is the true stopper, not lack of a business plan.

Not even close. Private industry cannot hope to survive spending billions on something that has no potential for payback until decades later. IF we decide as a nation that space business is worthwhile, then the nation needs to build the necessary infrastructure. Private industry won't.

34 posted on 06/15/2004 11:13:09 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: r9etb
Would the Russians, and now the Chinese, recognize that sovereignty

Of course. They have also asserted sovereignty of all outer space.

35 posted on 06/15/2004 11:14:25 AM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: r9etb

Private property will be worked out. I believe getting there first is a good start. We need to establish our free market system and ideology as the marker for others who follow.


36 posted on 06/15/2004 11:15:56 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: r9etb
Private industry cannot hope to survive

Be careful to present your business plan to the right people. Don't waste your time with folks who have no intention of investing in your company.

-Jane Applegate

37 posted on 06/15/2004 11:16:10 AM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: RightWhale
21 Jun is the first scheduled spaceflight. Can the second be 22 Jun or would it take longer to prepare the SpaceShipOne?

June 21 is not an qualifying X-Prize attempt, since SpaceShipOne will not be carrying three passengers or weight eqivalent to two passengers in addition to the pilot. The flight on June 21 appears to be a test run to the required altitude prior to making an official attempt.

Regarding turn-around time, the Scaled Composites FAQ says they intend to replace the fuel casing and the nozzle on the rocket engine between high-altitude flights. I don't know how long this could reasonably be expected to take--although some areonautical types around here might be able to make a good guess.

I won't be surprised if Scaled Composites takes the full two weeks between their two official X-Prize attempts.

38 posted on 06/15/2004 11:18:25 AM PDT by TigerTale (From the streets of Tehran to the Gulf of Oman, let freedom ring.)
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To: TigerTale

Okay. They will be collecting records all the way.


39 posted on 06/15/2004 11:20:20 AM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: r9etb
Can there be an orbital X2?

Of course, I don't know whether or not an X2 goal would be achievable--but that would be the point of sponsering a prize. Since the money is only paid when the goal is achieved, the prize would only attract those willing to gamble that they can achieve it.

I assume that any X2 prize would be for a reusable, orbital vehical. I don't believe Rutan has said whether or not he would participate an an X2 endeavor--so we don't know he thinks it can be done.

Perhaps you are right, and an X2 objective would be out of the reach of private industry--but I expect we will see the X-Prize foundation put up some money to find out.

40 posted on 06/15/2004 11:26:10 AM PDT by TigerTale (From the streets of Tehran to the Gulf of Oman, let freedom ring.)
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