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To: rbmillerjr
Nor did it allow for it.

The Constitution does not enumerate our rights; it enumerates the powers of the federal government. Read the 10th Amendment. Besides, once a state secedes, it is no longer bound by the Constitution. According to your reasoning, American citizens shouldn't be able to eat meat because the Constitution doesn't specifically allow for it.

The States were bound by Article VI to uphold the Constitution.

And what about the federal government? The Southern states that seceded did so because they believed the U.S. government had violated the Constitution by interfering with the internal affairs of the states. You seem to believe that there should be no escape from federal tyranny. You may disagree with the South's arguments for secession - in fact, many Southerners at the time opposed it - but how oppressive would the federal government have to get before you would endorse breaking away for the sake of preserving liberty? The colonists declared their independence from the British Empire over much less tyrannical government interference than we have today.

Secession without Federal judicial approval of its Constitutionality, as well as the creation of an Amendment to validate it, is insurrection.

Ah, yes! It all makes sense now. You're one of those people who believe that nine people in black robes rule the country. The Constitutuion means only what they say it means. I guess Benjamin Franklin was wrong when he said, "It is every American's right and obligation to read and interpret the Constitution for himself."

Again, I will point out that Jefferson Davis was never tried for treason. If he was guilty of insurrection, then the case would have been a slam-dunk, and he would have been convicted and executed. But none of that happened because the constitutional case against secession could not be made.

92 posted on 06/15/2004 5:36:54 AM PDT by sheltonmac ("Duty is ours; consequences are God's." -Gen. Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson)
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To: sheltonmac
But none of that happened because the constitutional case against secession could not be made.

Bingo and bump.

94 posted on 06/15/2004 5:40:53 AM PDT by 4CJ (||) Men die by the calendar, but nations die by their character. - John Armor, 5 Jun 2004 (||)
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To: sheltonmac
Again, I will point out that Jefferson Davis was never tried for treason. If he was guilty of insurrection, then the case would have been a slam-dunk, and he would have been convicted and executed. But none of that happened because the constitutional case against secession could not be made.

Nonsense. Read up on the matter. The fact that Jefferson Davis was never tried, convicted, and jailed is due solely to Constitutional and political reasons. Davis was never tried, in large part, because of the actions of Chief Justice of the Supreme Court Salmon Portland Chase.

When Davis was captured he was held at Fortress Monroe and was headed for a military trial. However, the Johnson administration decided that any trial for treason would have to be in a civil court, and in Virginia since that was the base of Davis' alleged treasonable activities, that of directing armed rebellion against the United States. The competence of Judge John C. Underwood, circuit court judge for the District of Virginia, was suspect by those in the North who wanted to ensure a fair trial, so participation by Chief Justice Chase, who presided over the circuit including the Virginia district, was considered essential for a respectable verdict.

The first delay in trial was because neither Judge Underwood nor Chief Justice Chase felt that they had any authority over the case as long as Davis was held by the military. Because of the issues of military control of Davis' imprisonment, Chase refused to issue a writ of habeas corpus. Finally in May 1867 a writ was brought and Davis was taken to Richmond and transferred to the authority of the Federal courts. He appeared before Underwood on May 13, 1867, bail was set at $100,000, and bond was posted. Davis then left the country to reunite whith his family who were living in Canada, although he returned in November 1867 for his trial.

Over the next year Andrew Johnson was impeached and nearly convicted and the 14th Amendment was passed and ratified. Johnson began to fear that if Davis were tried and acquitted he would be impeached again and removed from office. So for political reasons, nothing further was done until after the 1868 election.

During this time, Chief Justice Chase made known to Davis' attorneys that it was his opinion that the third section of the 14th Amendment nullified the indictment against Davis, on the grounds that by stripping the right to hold elective office from high Confederate officials, a punishment for treasonable activities had been legislated. Trial and conviction on the treason charge would, in effect, mean that Davis would be punished again for the same crime. Chase saw that as a violation of his 5th Amendment rights.

Davis, however, wanted a trial because he saw it as an opportunity to vindicate both himself and the actions of the Confederacy. Davis' lawyers, understanding that trial would lead to conviction, pointed out that Davis' life was at stake, and there was a general agreement that they could not pass up the opportunity to arrange what they believed to be an honorable settlement. So on November 30, 1868, Davis' lawyers filed a motion requiring that the government attorneys show cause why the indictment should not be quashed. A hearing on the motion was held before Chase and Underwood in December, and on the December 5th the two announced a split vote, with Chase favoring laying aside the indictment, and Underwood wanting the case to be tried. The certificate of division between Chase and Underwood was forwarded to the Supreme Court, and while the indictment technically remained pending, no more action was ever taken. It was clear that Chase would favor overturning a guilty verdict, making the government hesitant to proceed. The Davis case remained on the circuit court docket for February 15, 1869, but the government indicated at that time that it would not prosecute. The indictment was, therefore, dismissed, as were indictments against thirty-seven other ex-Confederates, including Robert E. Lee.

So without the intervention of Chief Justice Chase, Jefferson Davis would have been tried and he would have been convicted. Even in Virginia a jury could have been found that would have done that.

116 posted on 06/15/2004 7:29:17 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Jefferson Davis - the first 'selected, not elected' president.)
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