Posted on 06/10/2004 4:45:00 PM PDT by Vetvoice
The controversial Lav3 light armoured vehicle is understood to have caused a multimillion-dollar army budget blowout, while pictures fresh from the battlefields of Iraq graphically expose the vehicle's shortcomings.
Note: This story is accompanied by extensive imagery of the Lav3 suffering massive damage under combat conditions. Those photographs are available in the print edition.
Defence sources told The National Business Review the army had sought nearly $40 million extra funding for the Lav3s, a highly sensitive request given the controversial nature of the vehicles' purchase.
The Lav3s, which began service late last year, cost nearly $700 million.
The heated debate over wheels or tracks aside, the 105 Lav3s bought by the government is nearly twice the number of vehicles originally considered necessary in a single purchase.
Army spokesman Ric Cullinane and Ministry of Defence PR man Warren Inkster said they didn't know of the extra funding request.
But NBR understands there is a Lav3 funding paper trail between the army, the Chief of Defence Force Air Marshall Bruce Ferguson, the Ministry of Defence and the Treasury.
Official Information Act requests have been lodged with those parties and Defence Minister Mark Burton seeking all correspondence on the matter.
National Party defence spokesman Simon Power has also submitted a series of written questions on the matter to the minister.
Meanwhile, soldiers in a US Army "Stryker" unit have sent alarming photos of their hapless Lav3s out of Iraq.
The troops are describing the Lav3 as a "widow maker," according to US military analyst Lonnie Shoultz.
The images show the lumbering eight-wheeled vehicles stuck in the mud and in ditches.
New Zealand First defence spokesman Ron Mark said he'd heard stories from New Zealand Army soldiers of the Lav3s getting stuck in the mud during training in Waiouru, then ironically being towed out by the M113 armoured personnel carriers the army chose not to refurbish. The Australian Army chose to spruce up its M113s.
More seriously, the pictures show the Lav3 burning like a roman candle after being struck by rocket-propelled grenades (RPG) and driving over land mines.
Shortly after deployment in Iraq the Lav3 was revealed to be too thin-skinned to survive an RPG or mortar attack.
It has since been fitted with a heavy slatted cage, designed to take the initial brunt of an RPG or mortar explosion.
But this has proved futile, with US troops reporting Lav3s being routinely "lit up" by explosives.
That aside, the cages have made the Lav3 too wide to cross many Iraqi bridges, too big to fit into a C130 Hercules -- the plane they were designed to be transported in -- and about 2300 kg heavier, which considerably decreases their manoeuvrability.
As for landmines, the photos show the Lav3 failing there too.
The Lav3 was designed to be capable of driving away from a landmine explosion which Mr Burton has always maintained was a big advantage of the vehicle.
But the image on page 1 [print edition] shows the "tie rod" on one of the wheels has blown clean away from the undercarriage (inside the blue ring on the photo).
Even without the raging inferno, defence sources said, the vehicle was "not going anywhere on its own."
11-Jun-2004
The Stryker's have been performing admirably. Every weapon system is tweaked after it is fielded and especially when it is a combat zone.
This is a case of "Write it and they'll come" syndrome. Only it's after the fact. The Stryker is doing just fine.
Sorry: 'Strykers'
Got references?
[Not PR sources]
Note: I don't think Stryker is 'bad',
I think it is far less than advertised.
Ergo, money wasted on a side trip.
No.
Do your own homework. The Stryker is doing just fine.
Ha. You should have seen the tender process we used to get them. Our MOD wrote it so tightly it could only applu to the Lav/Stryker, right down to the measurwements for the map and cupholders!
Then we faddled around tossing up between turreted/unturreted and the cost balloned because the non-turreted models needed centre-of-weight reenegineering cos of our extensive mods..
This was a classic case of our military deciding what we wanted and then making it fit the jobs rather than the other way around. I'm not necessarily opposed to the Lavs, but they're certainly not what NZ needs. At least an amphibious capacity and easier transportaion given our remoteness should have been factors.
Stryker and LAV III are different vehicles. There are no LAV III's in US service.
09 July, 2003
Kabul, Afghanistan
Canadian Forces Corporal Douglas Gill stands sentry atop a LAV III (Light Armoured Vehicle) at an observation point in Kabul, Afghanistan.
Cpl Gill, a member of the 2nd Battalion, The Royal Canadian Regiment (2 RCR), is one of the first soldiers to arrive in support of Operation ATHENA, Canada's contribution to the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Kabul.
If you could...what then is an LAV3?
No wonder they arent doing too well.
This is an LAVIII...
Now that is indeed a Stryker Chassis. Perhaps I am missing something. Why is that not a Stryker[it is at the very least one of the many variants]?
Danish Piranha III in Kosovo. It is not a Stryker either.
Okay...thanks. I figured as much.
Is the LAV3 one of the what 9[?] different variants of the Stryker?
The Swiss MOWAG Piranha III and the Canadian General Dynamics Land Systems LAV III are in my opinion essentially the same vehicle. General Dynamics bought MOWAG last October.
Infantry Carrier
Commander's Vehicle
Anti-tank Guided Missile Vehicle
Reconnaissance
Mortar Carrier - 120 mm
Mortar Carrier - 81 mm
Fire Support Vehicle
Engineer Squad
Recovery
Medical Evacuation
Medical Treatment
NBC Reconnaissance
Mobile Gun System
Self Propelled Howitzer
Cool.
After looking around a bit it seems that the LAVIII is indeed a weapon system built on a Stryker platform. But in the end...it isnt a Stryker and does not have the same weapon systems, targeting or C&C capabilities.
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