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Police seize legal gunowner
WorldNetDaily ^ | 6/5/04 | WorldNetDaily

Posted on 06/05/2004 8:48:52 PM PDT by natewill

A gunowners group is protesting the seizure of a legally armed citizen in a bookstore by two police officers who responded to an anonymous caller alarmed by the weapon.

Michael Pelletier was browsing a Manchester, N.H., Barnes & Noble with his wife March 27 when a police officer, assisted by a colleague, suddenly grabbed him by the right shoulder and his holster and pushed him toward the corner of a bookcase, says Gunowners of America.

The Manchester Police Department officers, Chris Byron and David DuPont, ordered Pelletier to place his hands on his head, which he did at once, the group said.

Pelletier was carrying a pistol openly at the small of his back, which became apparent after he took off his jacket.

The officers then disarmed Pelletier and escorted him out of the store. Background checks revealed no record, but officers and detectives issued a barrage of questions about why he carries a gun and what kind of training he had, the gun group said.

(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; gunowner; policeseize
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To: BOOTSTICK
However if the business has a no gun policy, you do not have the right to shop there, he can ask you to leave, if you do not, you are in violation of the law, and subject to arrest

That is 100% correct. The law that covers that is "trespass". However, they can't charge you with walking armed into their store-- only 'tresspassing' and only if you refuse to leave

TO SUM IT UP, YABOO'S, THE OWNER OF THE BOOK STORE DOESN'T WANT DUMBASSES WALKING AROUND WITH A GUN IN THE SMALL OF HIS BACK!!!!!,

So they can ask him to leave. But most don't because they don't want to lose the business.

In many states, such as Arizona, Vermont, and Virginia; open carry is very popular, and I'm aware of very few instances where a store owner has had a problem with it.

and my bet is, neither do 99% of the shoppers in the book store with him.

So the Rights of Americans are dependent on what you think shoppers think about the issue?

If your argument against carrying guns is based on what you think other people think, that is incredibly weak.

You sound like Sarah Brady.

141 posted on 06/06/2004 7:56:13 PM PDT by Mulder (Those who would give up liberty for temporary security, deserve neither -- Ben Franklin)
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To: Mulder
The problem is, trying to determine if the actions of these police was legal, from thousands of miles away.

As I pointed out, (as an example) here in Idaho open carry is legal... except where there is a city ordnance. Although you can find the Idaho Code on the web, you can't find city ordnances. Having a concealed weapon license is irrelevant if you are going to carry it open.

You can't find out from the web if it is legal to carry open in Boise, and you can't make that determination for the city in NH either.

The major reason I had to get an Idaho CWP was so that I wouldn't have to deal with all of the local ordnances. I'm legal wherever I go (except schools, courts etc. that are prohibited by federal law). I just have to keep it concealed.
142 posted on 06/06/2004 8:11:19 PM PDT by babygene (Viable after 87 trimesters)
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To: babygene

Idaho has state level preemption, which means local laws are trumped by state laws. For example, the postings in the Garden City portion of the Greenbelt indicating no weapons are not enforceable. There are no local restrictions on carrying openly other than the standard ones like in jail, court, school, etc.


143 posted on 06/06/2004 8:22:19 PM PDT by cruiserman
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To: Mulder
If you think business owners don't mind people open carrying loaded weapons in their establishments, you are woefully naive. If you don't believe me call any Insurance company that writes business policies. Nice try though....lol
144 posted on 06/06/2004 8:33:21 PM PDT by BOOTSTICK
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To: BOOTSTICK
If you think business owners don't mind people open carrying loaded weapons in their establishments, you are woefully naive.

All of the ones I know wouldn't have a problem with it.

Then again, I only hang out with real adults that don't have a problem with seeing other Free men and women armed. In fact, we consider it their duty to do so.

you don't believe me call any Insurance company that writes business policies

If it were up to the "insurance companies", all guns would be outlawed. I really don't care what they think.

145 posted on 06/06/2004 8:37:35 PM PDT by Mulder (Those who would give up liberty for temporary security, deserve neither -- Ben Franklin)
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To: babygene
You can't find out from the web if it is legal to carry open in Boise, and you can't make that determination for the city in NH either.

Sure you can.

Try www.packing.org

146 posted on 06/06/2004 8:38:50 PM PDT by Mulder (Those who would give up liberty for temporary security, deserve neither -- Ben Franklin)
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To: Mulder
Also, he might have grounds to prosecute them on federal civil Rights violations

He won't get far. Problem is that he was only momentarily detained and inconvienced. He wasn't arrested, removed from the premises, held, his property confiscated, or really anything. He's got very little as a case.

147 posted on 06/06/2004 9:03:21 PM PDT by Melas
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To: goldstategop
Exactly. He was carrying a legal permit. Unless the police saw he committed a crime he can make a prima facie case for false arrest, illegal imprisonment, and official abuse of authority under color of law. You shouldn't lose your rights just cause you happen to be a gun owner. This is still America.

Nope, nope and nope. You can't claim false arrest without being arrested. You can't claim illegal imprisonment without being imprisoned. Momentary detainment on the scene for questioning while it's sorted out does not even begin to come close to meeting that criteria.

148 posted on 06/06/2004 9:05:10 PM PDT by Melas
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To: TheCrusader
Interesting comment. So if your jacket opens up in the wind, of if you bend over to tie your shoe and somebody sees the firearm as your pant leg rises, then you're breaking the law?

Yep, in Texas you would be.

149 posted on 06/06/2004 9:07:57 PM PDT by Melas
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To: Melas
He wasn't arrested, removed from the premises, held, his property confiscated, or really anything

It appears that from the article he was certainly opressed (temporarily) and intimidated.

USC TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 13 > Sec. 241:

If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same; or

If two or more persons go in disguise on the highway, or on the premises of another, with intent to prevent or hinder his free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege so secured -

They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death

**************
Note that under federal law, all they have to do it conspire to do so. That also means that the blissninny who called the cops could also be endicted under this statute.

150 posted on 06/06/2004 9:10:27 PM PDT by Mulder (Those who would give up liberty for temporary security, deserve neither -- Ben Franklin)
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To: babygene

Maybe you'll make more sense after you sleep


151 posted on 06/06/2004 11:17:03 PM PDT by paul51
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To: Mulder
Note that under federal law, all they have to do it conspire to do so. That also means that the blissninny who called the cops could also be endicted under this statute.

Oh come on. Now you think it should be a punishable offense to call the cops without first consulting an attorney? This is too stupid for words. Definately too stupid to continue discussing.

152 posted on 06/06/2004 11:22:22 PM PDT by Melas
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To: Mulder
With all due respect, I think you are completely full of crap! I know hundreds of business owners here in Florida, I doubt one would have "no problem" with Hayseeds in their business with open, loaded weapons.
153 posted on 06/06/2004 11:32:55 PM PDT by BOOTSTICK
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To: Mulder

Night....

Breaks down easy, balanced well and sight are on. Only adjusts for drift, but they are shooting sights.


154 posted on 06/07/2004 1:10:44 AM PDT by Michael121 (An old soldier knows truth. Only a Dead Soldier knows peace.)
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To: I got the rope

2003 NRA pistol of the year means something. They make a mini 45, a mini 9, and the XD was 480.00, cheaper than a Kimbar or Glock. Better made than the S&W 40.

The first shot as I said was center bullseye. Shot group was close using 180 grain.


155 posted on 06/07/2004 1:14:06 AM PDT by Michael121 (An old soldier knows truth. Only a Dead Soldier knows peace.)
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To: Melas
Now you think it should be a punishable offense to call the cops without first consulting an attorney? This is too stupid for words

Well, the feds are experts when it comes to enforcing "stupid laws".

156 posted on 06/07/2004 6:15:10 AM PDT by Mulder (Those who would give up liberty for temporary security, deserve neither -- Ben Franklin)
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To: BOOTSTICK
I know hundreds of business owners here in Florida, I doubt one would have "no problem" with Hayseeds in their business with open, loaded weapons.

Are you sure you have the right forum?

Most posters here wouldn't consider Americans openly armed as "hayseeds" or "idiots".

Perhaps you'd be more comfortable in China where only the police and military have guns? You won't have to worry about moronic hayseeds carrying there.

157 posted on 06/07/2004 6:16:51 AM PDT by Mulder (Those who would give up liberty for temporary security, deserve neither -- Ben Franklin)
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To: BOOTSTICK

#1 - the Barnes & Noble bookstore in question does not have any manner of "no guns" policy posted. The police officers asked if I was welcome in the store any longer, and they said "sure, no problem" - it wasn't the management who called, it was a single patron.

#2 - I was not asked to leave by the store management, even indirectly. Once it was returned to me by the officers who had confiscated it, I reloaded my firearm, concealed it, and went back into the store and purchased $200 worth of DVDs and books with my wife.

#3 - if 99% of the patrons were alarmed, don't you think there would have been more than one 911 call?


158 posted on 06/07/2004 6:24:36 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: babygene
BabyGene - New Hampshire has statewide preemption in RCA 159:26 with no grandfather clause, there are no local open carry ban ordinances anywhere in the state.
159 posted on 06/07/2004 6:27:23 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: BOOTSTICK
You keep running around calling people "nut" and "idiot". Yet you are the one who has set up his business as a victim disarmament zone. You are the one that does not trust law abaiding citizens with the means to not only protect themselves from criminals, but quite possibly your store as well.

Tell you what, next time your store gets held up... I'll just sit there and watch instead of rendering aid.

Piss on attitudes like yours you scared little rabbit. You deserve everything you get.

160 posted on 06/07/2004 6:30:21 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (For an Evil Super Genius, you aren't too bright are you?)
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