Marriage Can Be Expanded

LA Times ^ | June 5, 2004 | Sherman Stein

[asmith92008]

A quarter of a century ago, our then-teenage daughter, the youngest of our three children, announced that she was gay. Her revelation came as a shock, but the intervening years have given me time to reflect on homosexuality. I have slowly gone from that initial shock to acceptance, along the way reaching some insights.

In our world, the word "stranger" calls forth fear. For two people to shift from strangers to friends to devoted lifetime companions is practically a miracle. Society should encourage such commitments, which not only sustain two people but provide a firm foundation for our society.

[foreverfree]

bump

[megatherium]

Most recent studies indicate that only 10% of male homosexuals are born that way.

The rest just get sucked into it.

I don't want to go there.

Humor aside, I would be grateful for links or references to these recent studies.

[sarasmom]

"Sexual behavior is the most addicting kind of activity possible; the brain is hardwired to do whatever it has done in the past successfully, to make it occur again."

That is one of the largest mouthful's of utter garbage phsycho-tripe, that anyone has, as yet, attempted to foist upon me to date!

Ranks right up there with the "but Mommy, everyone else does it" argument.
Everyone is not ultimately controlled by their personal sexual preferences, and perverse, abnormal sexual preferences are not
"natural" impulses.

Weirdos and freaks are really just weirdos and freaks.
So sorry,(not)that they are uncomfortable with society deemed normal "labels" as being weirdos and freaks.

Perverse sexual orientation aficionados are not a legitimate separate minority group.
They are just weirdos and freaks.

[Gid_29]

http://www.fact-index.com/c/ca/causes_of_sexual_orientation.html

Interesting page - for both sides of the argument - fleshes out some arguments and has links to descriptions and research (and possible fallacies).

[longtermmemmory]

After decades of research, it is agreed that people do not choose their sexual orientation.

She is just trying to justify her life and mothering. She refuses to accept reality or the notion that her child was recruited or abused.

This is not "expanding" or "including" this is redefining to EXCLUDE man and woman from the definition. This is redefining marriage as ONLY AN ACTIVITY FOR RECREATIONAL SEX. This is redefining marriage as excluding children.

It is telling that this comes from the LA Times, basion of leftist smears and propaganda.

The only people who actual believe homosexuality is "inherited" and not a deviation and mental illness are homosexuals and homoenablers.

[usadave]

After decades of research, it is agreed that people do not choose their sexual orientation.

I'd like to hear the author explain bi-sexuality.

[m87339]

but the concept stays the same; The joining of two in a common bond

And "war is bad" and "we need the rest of the world's friendship" and all the other clptrap.

Marriage is about creating a stable base for procreation. The nuclear family unit has been proven over millenia to be the optimal way to do this which is in the best interest of society. Easy divorce or childless couples does NOT undermine this premise, anymore than driving your passenger car on the Interstate system designed to allow military to move quickly undermines that effort.

Why two? Whenevr I ask that question, I can never get a straight answer. If ANY part of marriage is up for grabs, then ALL parts are. Why two? Why the same species?

The bottom line is that if marriage is not ESSENTIALLY AND INTRINSICALLY about bringing up kids, then it has NO MEANING AT ALL.

Which is, of course, what the Isamifacists and the rest of the America-haters want. Remove the fabric of society and the whole thing unravels. All morals are relative.

[longtermmemmory]

This was chosen on purpose, "expanded". They are implying that homosexuals are "excluded" or marriage is narrow. They are obviously wrong.

What they should be writing is "sexual normality can be expanded." They are actually trying to say "the sexual act of [insert fetish here] must be imposed as normal by force of law."

Homosexuals are only about the sexual act. nothing else. Some of these conservative thinktanks need to get in gear and have science departments to directly attack the validity of the APA and other pc oriented organizations.

[montag813]

Why can't people confront their own children who are homosexuals? Randall Terry does a very good job of being able to love his gay son, while at the same time declaring how his son's lifestyle is wrong and self-destructive. These loony liberals just melt into mush when faced with their own childrens' homosexuality. Why should that mere fact cause them to dump the moral beliefs they have always held dear?

[Quix]

We seem to have lost alllllllllllllllllll

awareness and understanding about what

sacred vs profane

means in our society.

Sacred, holy = set apart for a lofty, holy, devoted use--as unto God etc.

profane at least meant and means common, i.e. NOT set apart as very special.

When marriage becomes whatever whim strikes whatever group of critters . . .

HOLY MATRIMONY

will truly have become profaned to the extreme. It seems well on it's way to that dismal state.

Any woman--or man, for that matter--worth a few dozen connected brain cells

should well realize that to be cherished uniquely, exclusively, after the pattern of Christ Loving the church--is indeed a most precious state.

Perhaps there's been such little of that evident the last 50 years that succeeding waves of young critters have given up--so much so, that they no longer have any hint of such a dream as part of that glint in their eyes for one another.

[m87339]

Incest has issues genetically; Polygamy and Bigamy, I can't argue for or against them really; Interspecies relationships would run into the same issue as incest

*BBBBZZZTTTT** WRONG WRONG WRONG! Homosexuals cannot have progeny!!! Therefore progeny is not an issue for marriage!!!! Therefore there are NO GENETIC Issues!!!

Or is Marriage about having sexual relations? So the foundation of our society is about legalized sex?

You cannot win this one.

[longtermmemmory]

Homosexuals refuse to accept people who have sex with both sexes. Does not fit their PC world. They also refuse to adress the issue of temporary sexual conduct in prisons.

[tortoise]

I'd like to hear the author explain bi-sexuality.

From a theoretical standpoint, there seems to be a reasonably strong basis for such a thing in women, but not in men. Men show far more bias toward one extreme or the other than women, by a number of different metrics. Women can straddle the fence with relative ease, but men aren't wired that way.

Purely anecdotally, I know a number of women that play for both teams occasionally but know of no men that do even though I do know a couple gay men, which seems to support the research to some extent. I know guys that have switched teams, but none that have played for both at the same time to any real extent.

[megatherium]

Expanding marriage opens it to more people, but the concept stays the same; The joining of two in a common bond.

I have several old college friends who are in long-term monogamous homosexual relationships. I care for them and I honestly cannot judge them.

But most homosexuals are promiscuous, often extremely so. I have become unconvinced that this is the result of homophobia; the promiscuity is highest in the gay havens which exist in large cities. The result is a high rate of HIV and other diseases. The resulting misery is awful. I have lost friends to AIDS.

I am a libertarian on personal issues (but I am pro-life). I would support gay marriage if I thought it really would channel many gays into monogamous relationships. But I think all it will accomplish is to provide some affirmation to gay men; to encourage more men to act on their homosexual desires, leading them into the existing promiscious gay subculture. We all know the result: if gay men were no more promiscious than heterosexual men, there never would have been an AIDS epidemic.

[m87339]

should well realize that to be cherished uniquely, exclusively, after the pattern of Christ Loving the church--is indeed a most precious state.

You are of course, right. But you can NOT win with that argument. Although we were founded in the Judeo-Christian ethic, we are first and foremost a secular society. To say "because God says so" is a loser out of the gate and gets you painted (rightly) as a Taliban-esque intolerant person. This must be fought from a more intellectual perspective. The "God says so" crowd just muddies the water.

[m87339]

I would support gay marriage if I thought it really would channel many gays into monogamous relationships.

Read my #18 and answer my questions.

[William Tell]

longtermmemmory said: "This is redefining marriage as excluding children."

Not necessarily. We have lesbian neighbors who got pregnant through artificial insemination and chose to raise a child.

I understand that the birth mother had a falling out with her now not-so-significant other and has moved out of state with the child.

I expect soon to see a grade-school text published entitled "Mary Used to Have Two Mommies" to help explain lesbian divorce(?) to our kids.

[MHGinTN]

Homosexuality is degeneracy in adults. To condone and affirm this degeneracy as 'just as acceptable as normal sexual behavior' is to at once establish the worthlessness of the human soul and the institutions of civilization upon which the healthy continuance of culture depend. Embracing degeneracy degenerates the society. Does it harm traditional marriage as a fundamental institution of our civilization?... It murders it, aborts it, twsits the civilization into an laien beast of hedonistic pursuit where degenerates are protected to define themselves by their sexual proclivities no matter how unhealthy those proclivites may prove to be. THAT is the goal of the degenerates, to be 'just as acceptable' as any other behavior or minority. But what other class of marginal humans is allowed to define themselves based on degenerate behavior entered into willingly, then given full minority staus equal to race? I marvel that the black community is not outraged at the 'in your face' methodology of the degenerates, as the homosexuals diminish the legitimacy of true minorities. But then I remember that most black people vote democrat and that is the party of degeneracy and blood sacrifice for empowerment.

[megatherium]

megatherium: I would support gay marriage if I thought it really would channel many gays into monogamous relationships.

m87339: Read my #18 and answer my questions.

Please let me clarify what I said. I would support gay marriage if I thought it would lead to monogamy among gay people -- but I indicated that I don't think it would. The implication is that I therefore do not support gay marriage. Indeed, I do not.

[Gid_29]

If that is the case, then it has no meaning at all. I always thought it was about devotion to one's spouse - regardless of whether they choose to have children or not, or even to adopt.