Posted on 06/05/2004 7:21:49 PM PDT by nuconvert
Taking Back Islam - Moderate Muslims say their faith is compatible with Freedom.
By Erick Stakelbeck & Nir Boms
June 03, 2004
There's an elephant in the room whenever the current U.S. operation in Iraq is discussed: Is Islam truly compatible with democracy? Or do the U.S.'s troubles in stabilizing Iraq signal that Muslims simply have no desire to live in a free, democratic society?
Right now the answers to these questions are unclear. For every modern Islamic "success story" like Turkey or Malaysia, there are Islamist nightmares like Saudi Arabia and Iran.
In the United States, too, there is reason for uncertainty. American Muslims with moderate views have been either unable or unwilling to engage in public discourse. As a result, militant groups with a moderate veneer have been able to set the tone.
A patriotic group of Arizona Muslims, however, is looking to change all that.
Earlier this spring in Phoenix, the American Islamic Forum for Democracy (AIFD) held a "Rally Against Terror" that gave moderate Muslims a platform on which to condemn terrorism and pledge support for the United States.
Identified by the Arizona Republic as "the nation's first Muslim rally against terrorism," the 50-minute event drew, according to various estimates, between 250 and 400 people, most of them non-Muslims.
Considering that the event was actively promoted within Phoenix's 50,000-strong Muslim community, that number is a bit disappointing. Nevertheless, AIFD Chairman Zuhdi Jasser says the rally was a positive first step for the group, which was founded in March 2003 by Muslim professionals in the Phoenix area.
"When the moderates stay silent, the radicals speak for everyone," says Jasser, a physician. "Up until now, moderates have not been articulating a moderate form of Islam which Americans can embrace. We want to take back our faith from the radicals and let them know that we are side-by-side with the U.S."
Listening to Jasser, the son of Syrian immigrants, is a breath of fresh air at a time when anti-American sentiment engulfs a large part of the Arab and Muslim world. A former U.S. Navy Lieutenant Commander who served as a Navy medical officer from 1988 to 1999, Jasser clearly loves his country and his faith, and sees no reason why the two cannot coexist.
"Our inspiration for this is two things," says Jasser. "Number one, at the core of the war on terror is a battle over ideology. World War II had fascism, the Cold War had Communism. Our present war has the targeting and killing of civilians in the name of religion: Islam. There needs to be a Muslim voice that speaks directly against that ideology. Secondly, there is a lack of any American Islamic institution that discusses the synergy of the U.S. Constitution with the Islamic faith. This makes it an obligation for us to be leaders in promoting a form of Islam that is tolerant and secular in nature."
Jasser is quick to clarify his use of the word "secular."
"Secularism as a term is almost associated with a lack of piety," he says. "What I'm trying to say is that in America, there are many devout people who are politically active. But we don't make decisions here based on theocracy or religious views."
The values that Jasser and AIFD are promoting are deeply rooted in the American experience. Jasser is confident that Muslims in the U.S. will eventually embrace his message and realize that, as he says, "Freedom brings you closer to God."
For now, though, Jasser realizes that views like the ones he expressed in a May 25 op-ed for azcentral.com aren't likely to endear him to the al-Jazeera crowd. In the piece, titled "Iraq is Your War," Jasser listed four reasons why the U.S. is currently fighting abroad:
It is impossible to keep America safe by just playing defense.
The Middle East is the epicenter of the terror network.
Despotic governments bring out the worst in religion.
Change the political environment in the Middle East and we change the associated religious pathology.
"Over half of the Muslim immigrants in the U.S. came here in the past 25 years," says Jasser. "And many of them bring with them the baggage that government coercion and autonomy are necessary, just as in their former countries. We want to educate them and let them know that is not the case."
It would help if U.S. government officials and the mainstream media took notice of AIFD's efforts, rather than continuing to promote the agendas of radical Muslims with anti-American views. AIFD is attempting to increase its visibility through its website and by holding future anti-terrorism rallies.
By supporting the endeavors of AIFD and other moderate Muslim organizations, the U.S. may yet be able to avert the clash of civilizations simmering in its own backyard.
— Nir Boms is a fellow at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies and the Council for Democracy and Tolerance. Erick Stakelbeck is senior writer for the Investigative Project, a Washington, D.C.-based counterterrorism research institute.
You're really being foolish now.
Maybe you ought to take your comments up with Dr. Jasser.
I was upset because I had sent the wrong message. I was guilty of 2 major errors: 1) Vague commentary that could be misinterperted and 2) allowing that imprecision to offend someone.
The rest is all just your opinion. Your problem is you make ridiculous, outlandish, absolute, statements and then have to back-off a bit when someone calls you on it.
Of course it is my educated opinion. I have read the Koran/Quaran/Qu'aran. I speak from the clear text therein. I have not backed off one iota.
If you read my posts, you'd know "5th Column thinking" is another ridiculous statement.
So now someone who calls you on your support for an idiology which in its heart is based on evil to comb through your posts to figure out whether you mean what you say?
"There are good Satan Worshippers -- they know that Satan loves them. The Sacred texts say so. They are good people, like you and me." Reality be damned.
"SUBJEGATION to God." That's your opinion, but so what if it's true? It's their religion. If that's what they want to believe, it's their business, not yours.
Not when they want to kill me, it isn't.
You are not getting the point. Or you are being obtuse on purpose. Islam was an evil religion, founded by an evil person, of evil intent, with evil purpose. It is manure that has been scented with roses.
Any thinking person who follows the precepts of Islam is knowingly practicing evil or is stupid or ignorant (the preferred position of the masses to the ruling Mullahs and their ilk) to the point of inanity. It is not possible to do otherwise.
To be intelligent and educated and a Muslim is to knowingly embrace evil either overtly or by turning a blind eye.
That is crystal clear (and not rude). You have yet to refute it substantially. btw: "what a stupid thing to say" is not generally considered "refutation" by most thinking people.
You cut me to the quick with your elegant repartee.
Please, no more. You have grasped the nettled nuance with your post and have whipped me into submission. Your post will shine in FRdom based on the combination of elegance, wit and intelligence.
I beg you, stop showing your intellectual prowess, lest others be afraid to post below the shadow of your towering liguistic abilities.
"To be intelligent and educated and a Muslim is to knowingly embrace evil either overtly or by turning a blind eye."
That isn't generally a statement made by "most thinking people."
My ideology ....? LoL. You think I'm muslim? Haven't read the posts, I guess. Is it the "handle"? LoL.
It doesn't matter if you like the religion or not. The point is, in this country, as long as you aren't hurting anyone or breaking any laws, you're free to practice your religion. Whether m87339 likes it or not.
Why thanks. Go, and sin no more.
Who was it that said; 'if you argue with a fool there are two fools having an argument'? (Or words to that effect?) Any further communication with nuconvert I think, will only prove that statement to be correct!
I agree with your translation.
I also believe Bin Laden did the world a great service, although thousands of innocent souls died a terrible death on that evil day, he brought the world a message and finally brought home to us all just what islam represents. Anyone who continues to name this death-cult a religion is suffering from a terrible delusion.
A delusion by the way, the apologists will cling to regardless of all historical evidence to the contrary. The 'prophet' was nothing but a WARLORD - A professional killer and a pirate. And this is what they worship as the 'messenger from allah' an evil man who ultimately caused the deaths of more people than the plagues.
Until mohammad is exposed islam will continue to kill just as it has for the last 1400 years and no muslim will be free anywhere in the world. How is this to be achieved? Ask yourself this: Why are the muslims unaware of the existence of a biography of their own 'prophet' - and why are they actually prevented from reading his true history?
If you have not understood that yet, let me say it again. Every verse in the koran is meaningless unless understood in the context of the life of the man. Islam would die a natural death if every muslim understood just how and when and why his 'revelations' were uttered.
That's it from me. READ THE BOOK! My best wishes m87339. Fred.
157 - "If you were to read Sir William Muir's book 'The Caliphate- It's Rise Decline and Fall' AND 'The Life of Muhammad' written by Edward Sell, any and all questions you may have about islam will be answered. "
Fred, Having studied arabic and having lived in muslim countries under muslim governments and worked with muslims for over 5 years. I made many muslim friends, and a few enemies. I have studied the Koran (for understanding) and studied some mid-east history, and personally seen much of it in actual relics and museums, and having had many muslims work for me, , I figure I know a fair amount about muslims, their culture and their religion.
As I am no longer doing this, and currently have other things to concern myself with, I will pass for now, thankyou. I think I know enough from real life, and basically pose my questions rhetorically, to get other's opinions and observations and ideas; and to challenge/correct misconceptions/errors. I know more about muslim lands and cultures than many muslims do, just as many tourists know more about my homeland of Florida, than I do, or just like I know more about New York City (having worked there twice), than many New Yorkers do.
Visitors and new comers see with different eyes and different energies than locals.
D'oh! You're a Libertarian!!! You think this is about whether people have the right to be muslims!
Of course they do. They also have the right to be Satan Worshippers, White Supremicists, Vodoo Practitioners, etc.
I thought you were defending the concept of "Moderate Islam." I jut wanted it to be made clear that anyone who is Islamic is, through that affiliation, stated they are enemies of the USA (and all of the western world). There is, to date in the USA, no law against that.
But it should mean that such people should be watched closely and the assumption is they want to destroy us. It is also a lie that someone can be a Muslim and a patriotic Anerican (except in using the 1st Amendement to destroy us)
There has always been a Communist Party in the USA. I don't see anyone on this forum supporting them.
157 - LOL - "Pirates? Here's a rather (long) good one. Did you know that over a million people were taken into slavery from the southern coasts of England?"
What a pile of crap:
" I’ve have estimated overall that between 1530 and 1780, that is about two and a half centuries, something of the order of a million to a million and quarter white Europeans were enslaved and taken to Barbary."
Particularly, since, between the barbary pirates and England, was the vast and powerful spanish empire, and the British and God sank the powerful Spanish Armada in 1588.
Perhaps a few Barbary raiders hit the coasts of Britain, but Britania ruled the waves for many centuries, particularly in the time period where your incompetent mathematician and incompetent historian covers.
Even if the lateen rigged, open pirate ships could cram in 100 slaves per boat, (highly unlikely, it would have taken 10,000 trips to take a million slaves.
ROTFL
I'm gonna get it baby. But nuconvert tasks me. He cannot make his argument on its merits and retreats to gypsite tricks and very cumbersome and bad legerdemain.
I also believe Bin Laden did the world a great service, although thousands of innocent souls died a terrible death on that evil day, he brought the world a message and finally brought home to us all just what Islam represents. Anyone who continues to name this death-cult a religion is suffering from a terrible delusion.
Which is why I believe nuconvert is a 5th columnist (or just stretching this out for the sake of it). We had a clear idea of what islam wanted from the 1st attack. The president then, some liberal jerk named Clignton or something, decided we couldn't do anything about it.
FN, you and I need to get out there, get the book into people's hands and make them understand that Islam is like Communism under the cover of "religion."
Last time I checked, I wasn't a libertarian. But that's not a dirty word either.
"It is also a lie that someone can be a Muslim and a patriotic Anerican"
You need to stop making those kinds of statements.
"Dr. M. Zuhdi Jasser is an American patriot. He is also a Muslim. The son of Syrian immigrants, he's a former U.S. Navy Lieutenant Commander who served as a Navy medical officer from 1988 to 1999."
Take it up with Dr. Jasser, and the Washington Times, and National Review.
Hey, I draw the line at pirates.
LOL! Oh, Brother!
164 - "My ideology ....? LoL. You think I'm muslim? Haven't read the posts, I guess. Is it the "handle"? LoL. "
What are you? I was wondering, myself, as you are generally far too forthright for a normal muslim, and I figured that it was just because you were a 'new-convert'.
164 - "It doesn't matter if you like the religion or not. The point is, in this country, as long as you aren't hurting anyone or breaking any laws, you're free to practice your religion. Whether m87339 likes it or not."
Practicing jihad is breaking our laws, therefore, being both a good muslim and a good American is not possible. You must let one of them slip.
LoL. I think this is the 3rd time in this thread that I've said or implied that I'm not muslim. Why do people put such stock in a person's "handle"? Lots of Freepers have animal names, but I assume they don't walk around on all fours. (well, may be a few exceptions)
So, do you speak any farsi? (Persian)
166 - "I also believe Bin Laden did the world a great service, although thousands of innocent souls died a terrible death on that evil day, he brought the world a message and finally brought home to us all just what islam represents. Anyone who continues to name this death-cult a religion is suffering from a terrible delusion. "
I agree. Unfortunately too many liberals continue to ignore Bin Laden's message.
172 - "Hey, I draw the line at pirates."
You do? Which way - at me attacking muslim pirates, or at me attacking idiots who don't know history and can't add.
"Practicing jihad is breaking our laws..."
Jihad has different meanings. To some, it's the struggle within oneself against the forces of evil. The struggle to remain close to God.
To others, it's used as a synonym for 'holy war'.
Newsflash.....not all muslims in this country are involved in a holy war against everyone else in the country. To you, that must mean they've "slipped". So be it. Think of them as 'slipped' muslims, if you like. To me, they're moderates, traditional, secular. And they have the right to practice their religion.
LOL! I refuse to discuss pirates of any kind.
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