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To: DallasMike
Do you have any facts to back up your assertion that the seminary at Baylor is liberal?

1. "A recent issue of Baylor University's Lariat newspaper reported that open theism is gaining ground at Baylor's Truett Seminary due to the influence of theologian Roger Olson, who has praised the work of Boyd while calling himself "open to open theism."
http://www.acts1711.com/ets2.htm

2. Russell Dilday

3. Faculty and student exchanges with Harvard Divinity school.
http://articles.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1058/is_12_118/ai_73827715
"Lest one think Harvard theology might be moving to the right, it's useful to know that Baylor, once known as the crown jewel in the Southern Baptist educational tiara, as the renowned Harvey Cox, Harvard professor of divinity, described it to Bay Windows, is not the place it used to be. " - http://www.baywindows.com/news/2001/03/29/LocalNews/Good-Grief.Harvard.Hooking.Up.With.Homophobic.Southern.Baptists-60736.shtml

4. "Baylor has disavowed connections with the Southern Baptist Convention in recent years, opting instead to affiliate solely with the moderate General Baptist Convention of Texas. Strengthening ties with Harvard underscores Baylor's resolve to chart a different course from the denomination's ardently conservative leadership."
http://articles.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1058/is_12_118/ai_73827715

5. Read about a church pastored by a fellow who went to Truett. Warning - strong language used by members. Here's one that can be printed on FR: " Like other Ecclesia members, Kevin Hartley refuses to censor himself from what conservative Christians frequently demonize. "
http://www.houstonpress.com/issues/2003-12-11/news.html

28 posted on 06/03/2004 12:40:26 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: PAR35
  1. Why do you think that "open theism" is liberal theology? The Bible says in a number of places that God changed his mind in response to people's prayers or intercessions. If the future is completely predetermined and cannot be changed, then why pray for people as the Bible commands us? Is the Bible wrong?  

The primary argument for open theism is that it theoretically violates some of the tenets of Calivinism. However, Baptists historically have rejected much of Calvinism.

The same lies that were being spread by fundamentalists about my pastor and my church in the 1980s are being spread by the same people about Truett Seminary today. Please see the article at the end of my post.

My question:  if the fundamentalists have truth on their side, then why are they so eager to spread lies about those who oppose them. Is this consistent with Jesus' teachings? I think not.

  1. What's liberal about Russell Dilday? I met him and heard him several times and read many of his works and he never said anything that wasn't conservative and evangelical. I seem to remember a single quote from a book (taken out of context, of course) that was used to justify his firing.

It appears that the definition of a liberal is anyone, regardless of their theology who opposed the political aspirations of the fundamentalists.

  1. I see nothing in those links to indicate that Truett is becoming theologically liberal. The second link seems to espouse hope that it becomes liberal, but offers no evidence other than a delegation from Baylor meeting with a delegation from Harvard.
  1. I would not describe the leadership of the SBC as any more theologically conservative than that of the "moderates." The difference is ethics -- the "moderates" have them and the "fundamentalists" don't. I'm not criticizing the average church member (like, say, you) who approves of the fundamentalists because they typically have no idea of the horrible things the fundamentalists did to gain control.
  1. So there's one flaky pastor who went to Truett. Big deal. I can find examples of bad pastors from what the fundamentalists would claim are good schools.

 

April 23, 2001

BGCT says churches misled by lies and distortions

By Mark Wingfield

Managing Editor

Have you heard the one about the faculty of Baylor University's Truett Seminary giving an award to a student who wrote a paper denying the virgin birth of Christ?

It's not true, but spreading this lie reportedly was instrumental in persuading one Texas Baptist church to break ties with the Baptist General Convention of Texas and join the alternative Southern Baptists of Texas Convention.

Truett faculty and administration easily could have debunked this lie with the truth--if they had been given a chance in time. But by the time they learned about the false accusation, the damage already had been done.

Such is the case with a number of churches that are being led astray with false information about the BGCT and its institutions, according to BGCT representatives who field inquiries from churches.

"If you hear something that doesn't sound right, don't just believe it," urged Bill Arnold, president of the Texas Baptist Missions Foundation and coordinator of the BGCT's rapid-response team for churches with questions.

"It's easy to call the BGCT and get an answer for anything," Arnold said. "We've got churches throwing away 100 years of cooperation over one negative statement about the BGCT that they never bother to verify.

"Check it out," he pleaded. "Don't just believe this stuff at face value. Confirm it for yourself."

Had the church that was told the lie about Truett Seminary called to ask for the facts, they would have learned that no such award has been given and no such paper has been written. In fact, "we do not give awards for any papers," said David Garland, associate dean.

"We would not give an award for this," Garland said, affirming that Truett faculty indeed believe in the virgin birth of Christ.

As increasing efforts are made to lure Texas churches away from the BGCT and toward the new SBTC, the amount of misinformation being circulated is growing as well, said Arnold and Glenn Majors, director of Cooperative Program services for the BGCT.

Both men have spoken in numerous churches, where they have explained the BGCT's positions and fielded questions. In one sense, those churches offer a glimmer of hope because they at least ask someone from the BGCT to address questions, the two men said.

What's more distressing to BGCT officials is the number of churches making significant decisions about affiliation based on rumors, innuendo and outright lies.

Even when BGCT representatives are invited to churches to answer questions, often the pastor or some other leader has sown seeds of doubt within the congregation beforehand.

One El Paso pastor wrote a two-page letter to his congregation before BGCT representatives arrived, charging that the BGCT has taken money away from SBC seminaries "in order to fund their own newly formed liberal seminaries."

The pastor gave no evidence of liberalism at BGCT-related seminaries.

That often is the case with the sweeping accusations made against the BGCT, confirmed Arnold. He compares the phenomenon to an acronym he read in an article on public relations--FUD, which stands for fear, uncertainty and doubt.

That's exactly what critics of the BGCT are stirring in churches across the state, he said. "There's a real sense of fear of liberalism. People will give up almost anything to protect themselves from liberalism.

"We share that fear of liberalism," Arnold said of the BGCT. "We agree that liberalism is damaging to the work of Christ and that denominations that are liberal lose their focus and direction."

Accusing the BGCT of being liberal is a charge that just won't stick, Arnold asserted. "The fact that you hold to the 1963 Baptist Faith & Message doesn't make you a liberal. If it does, then prior to 2000 there were an awful lot of folks there with you."

When people hurl the nebulous charge of liberalism at the BGCT, he will ask for a specific example. Often, those making the accusation can give no example.

Others spread rumors that have little or no basis in fact.

For example, the wife of a pastor who has been a frequent critic of the BGCT recently told another pastor's wife, "If you want to keep funding abortion, go ahead and give your money to the BGCT."

BGCT officials publicly have stated numerous times that the convention in no way funds or supports abortion. Baptist hospitals affiliated with the BGCT must not perform abortions. The BGCT in annual session has passed anti-abortion resolutions and motions seven times since 1980.

Nevertheless, cold, hard facts such as these are not persuasive to some people, Arnold explained. "For most people, this is an emotional issue; it's not an intellectual issue. For us to answer it with facts is really not speaking to where some folks are."

Even so, BGCT representatives keep trying.

Majors said he has found some success in trying to address complex issues on a simpler level.

For example, he frequently gets questions about why the BGCT in annual session affirmed the 1963 Baptist Faith & Message but not the 2000 Baptist Faith & Message adopted by the SBC.

The difference between the two versions, he explains, is control. The 2000 version attempts to exert more control over churches and denominational employees than the 1963 version, he said.

Differences over the two versions of the Baptist Faith & Message are among the few clear points where individuals may point to two pieces of paper and say, "This is what one group believes and this is what the other believes."

Some critics of the BGCT have taken even solid documentation such as this and attempted to read into it more sinister motivations, Arnold and Majors said.

One Texas pastor wrote to his congregation that by not affirming the 2000 Baptist Faith & Message, the BGCT was endorsing homosexual marriage.

In fact, the BGCT has taken no action in favor of homosexuality or homosexual marriage. In 1982, messengers to the BGCT annual session expressed the conviction that "the homosexual lifestyle is not normal or acceptable in God's sight and is indeed called sin." That position has not been amended.

In 1998, the BGCT refused to accept contributions from University Baptist Church of Austin because the church ordained a homosexual.

Yet homosexuality is a recurring theme in accusations against the BGCT and its agencies.

Matt Sciba, prospective student services coordinator for Truett Seminary, said his office receives multiple variations on the homosexuality question, including rumors that there are lesbians on the Truett faculty or among the student body.

Neither accusation is true, Sciba said.

He's familiar with such rumors, because when he first started looking for a seminary to attend about six years ago, people warned him against Truett with similar scary stories, including accusations that Truett faculty "don't believe the Bible."

He went to the seminary's assistant dean and asked him whether the accusations were true. "He said, "I know all the professors, and that's not the case,'" Sciba reported.

What Sciba found at Truett was "the exact opposite" of the rumors he had heard, he said. "The professors here have a very deep respect for the Scriptures and see them as authoritative and inspired."

And Truett is not a haven for lesbians, he added. "That's completely bogus."

Fears of homosexuality have been stirred for several years by papers, pamphlets and videos produced by Missouri layman Roger Moran and distributed in Texas by Wichita Falls layman Bill Streich.

Both Moran and Streich have used "guilt-by-association" tactics to link various BGCT leaders to support for homosexuality and abortion. By their argument, if a person serves on the board of a non-profit entity or civic organization with someone who supports abortion or homosexuality, then that person implicitly supports abortion and homosexuality as well.

Despite appeals from multiple Baptist leaders to stop spreading innuendo, the writings of Moran and Streich continue to circulate in Texas. Their so-called "research" formed a major part of the documentation given by First Baptist Church of Dallas in its decision to dually align with SBTC.

The report of First Baptist Church in turn has been picked up and repeatedly quoted by other churches considering breaking ties with the BGCT.

Rather than relying on the second-hand report of any other church, Arnold and Majors urge Texas churches to seek answers on their own. They and other BGCT representatives are willing to come to any Texas Baptist church and answer questions.

"Every church is important, regardless of their size or location," Arnold said. "We are happy to come to any church or meet with any group."

Editor's note: To request a BGCT representative to speak at your church, call (214) 828-5100. Many resources documenting allegations against the BGCT and answers to those allegations are available online on our Baptist Decision page and at www.bgct.org.

The Baptist Standard


 

 

 

30 posted on 06/07/2004 3:32:30 PM PDT by DallasMike
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