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To: Seselj

>>>The conclusions this article makes are the direct opposite of reality. It was the left who was pushing for interference in the Balkans and bombing the Serbs, while the right was mostly of the opinion that this was the ex-Yugoslavs' problem and the west should let them sort it out themselves.

The conclusions of the article are indeed correct. Note that this article is written from a Europian (British) perspective, and in Europe it is the Euro-Socialists/neo-communists who uphold the point of view that Serbia was the victim of a conspiracy. It is a sort of strange irony that here in the US it is quite the opposite (of course there are no bonafide Socialists in the US, even though the dems come pretty close to it). This irony comes as a consequence of the fact that:
1) Most conservatives hate Bubba with a passion and it happened under Bubba's watch so it was inherently wrong.
2) They mistakenly view it as a religious conflict.

>>>As for Vasa Cubrilovic he was just one man, and his opinions were never supported by the Serbian government.

Yes Vasa Cubrilovic was one man, so let's move on to another man. Let's see if you can guess who said it:
"Serbia may lose the war, but there will be no more Albanians in Kosovo"

>>>By the way I do support the expulsion of all Albanians from Kosovo who do not have documentation proving that they are Serbian citizens.

How convenient to state this, considering that it is well documented Serb military tore the papers of many Kosovars as they were kicking them out of Kosova.

>>>We both know it would have been impossible for Albanians to become such a large majority in Kosovo if there wasn't some illegal immigration from Albania. I estimate at least 50% of Kosovo Albos are illegal immigrants, or the offspring of illegal immigrants.

Serb myth, sort of like the one that said there were 16 unclaimed bodies from Albania proper in the morgues after the riots (thoroughly debunked). I would be shocked if the total number reached 5%. Ethnic Albanians have been the majority in Kosova at least since the end of the 17th century; I suggest you look at birth rates and Serb emigration patterns for a real explanation of why the Albanian majority rose to such a high percentage.


9 posted on 06/01/2004 8:47:41 PM PDT by GeraldP ("Non-violence never solved anything." - Homer)
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To: GeraldP
1) Most conservatives hate Bubba with a passion and it happened under Bubba's watch so it was inherently wrong.

That has nothing to do with it. Conservatives aren't so stupid that they support or oppose something simply because of who orders it. Clinton ordered many strikes against Iraq during the late 90's, did you hear conservatives complaining about that? Of course not, because it was the right thing to do. The opposition to Clinton's war exists because it was wrong, not because Clinton was in charge when it happened.

2) They mistakenly view it as a religious conflict.

Mistakenly? Did the Albanians destroy hundreds of Christian churches, or did they not? Did many "mujahiden" come to fight for the Albanian cause or did they not? The Albanians have been trying to portray themselves as "moderate muslims" after 9/11 but before 9/11 they were bragging to Arabs how muslim they were in order to get help from Arabs.

Yes Vasa Cubrilovic was one man, so let's move on to another man. Let's see if you can guess who said it: "Serbia may lose the war, but there will be no more Albanians in Kosovo"

You just don't get it. Statements made by anyone are irrelevent unless they are made as oficial statements of the government representing the people. There are thousands of Albanians who make similar statements about Serbs, so what?

How convenient to state this, considering that it is well documented Serb military tore the papers of many Kosovars as they were kicking them out of Kosova.

It's not well documented, this was claimed by Albanian refugees but it has never been proven, and Albanian refugees aren't exactly known for telling the truth. The fact is, when someone is born, his birth is recorded at his local church, which then copies the information to the municial government, which then copies the information to the federal government in Belgrade. This is how it was done all over ex-Yugoslavia. So proof would exist in several different places and if someone was born in Yugoslavia (to legal citizens) it would be impossible to erase all traces of it.

Serb myth, sort of like the one that said there were 16 unclaimed bodies from Albania proper in the morgues after the riots (thoroughly debunked). I would be shocked if the total number reached 5%. Ethnic Albanians have been the majority in Kosova at least since the end of the 17th century; I suggest you look at birth rates and Serb emigration patterns for a real explanation of why the Albanian majority rose to such a high percentage.

In 1455, Turkish cadastral tax census (defter) of the Brankovic dynasty lands (covering 80% of present-day Kosovo) recorded 480 villages, 13,693 adult males, 12,985 dwellings, 14,087 household heads (480 widows and 13,607 adult males). By ethnicity:

12,985 Serbian dwellings present in all 480 villages and towns
75 Vlach dwellings in 34 villages
46 Albanian dwellings in 23 villages
17 Bulgarian dwellings in 10 villages
5 Greek dwellings in Lauca, Vucitrn
1 Jewish dwelling in Vucitrn
1 Croat dwelling

Thus, Serbs were the overwhelming majority in Kosovo in 1455 according to TURKISH sources.

In 1871, According to Austrian colonel Peter Kukulj in a study done for the internal use of the Austro-Hungariann army: In the mutesarifluk of Prizren (corresponding largely to present-day Kosovo)) there was some 500,000 inhabitants, out of that:

318.000 Serbs (64%),
161.000 Albanians (32%),
10.000 Roma (Gypsies) and Circassians,
2.000 Turks

Thus, Serbs were the majority in 1871 according to AUSTRIAN sources.

I hope you'll agree that neither Turkish nor Austrian sources would have any reason to lie in favor of Serbs. In fact, the first source which puts Albanians at a majority is the Yugoslav census of 1948, which puts Albanians at 68%. So the tipping scale probably happened during WWII (when the Albanian Nazi division SS Skenderbeg killed tens of thousands of Serbs and drove many thousands more north). And it would be impossible to go from 68% in 1948 to 90% in 40 years in a population of 1.5 million, unless there was immigration of Albanians from Albania, emmigration of Serbs out of Kosovo, or both.

17 posted on 06/02/2004 9:55:38 AM PDT by Seselj
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