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To: pgyanke
Any priest who told you you should leave the faith rather than seek to instruct you has done a great evil.

This wasn't a priest (in fact, she was female), but as the official "Catholic denominational counsellor" for my school she carried in my eyes a certain amount of authority. Honestly, what is one supposed to think the Church as opposed to individual Catholics believes when all the Catholics one has met are lockstep (Biblical) liberals? I did once confess my horrible "sin" of Biblical literalism to an elderly priest in the confessional (I had been made to feel so guilty) and even though there was a line forming outside this elderly (and therefore, I assumed, relatively traditional) priest tried to talk me out of it by ticking off the "errors" in the Bible. And this attitude seems to be not only that of the clergy in one liberal area. The American Catholic Church is rather uniform, and it tends to wear its non- and even anti- Fundamentalism on its sleeve as the ultimate sign of its respectability.

I'm from the rural Bible Belt. I'm afraid that the vast cultural gulf between people like myself and the Catholic Church is vastly underestimated (most conservatives tend to think that all conservative chr*stians are basically the same). But no matter how ancient the Catholic Church may be, in America it means urban, ethnic, alcohol-drinking, gambling, dancing, bingo, hyper-intellectualism, higher criticism, evolutionism, and an ingrained hostility to the rural American heartland (Jews aren't the only ones who suffer from that disease!). As a converted Fundamentalist even when I wasn't being "proselytized" by liberal priests I felt that I was being patronized as a poor unfortunate whose simplistic beliefs were probably congenital (being a "redneck" and all). I could not forever remain in a church that regarded me (so it seemed) as a second class citizen while being governed by liberal, evolutionist, higher critical bishops. I'm afraid you do not properly appreciate the current Catholic reality if you expect history to answer every argument.

I have a great deal of respect for you. You seem to be someone who is genuinely searching. I would encourage you to visit St Joe Publications for some invaluable resources in the faith.

I appreciate your respect, and I respect you as well. However, I have no respect whatsoever for what almost all our religious leaders (of every faith) have become. These timid, apologetic, gutless nobodies are the current counterparts of those "terrible" tyrants who ruled the world and oppressed helpless dissenters for so long? I can't see how the practitioners of almost any religion have very much in common with their ancient ancestors.

I'm a Noachide, so I believe in the authority of the Orthodox Rabbinate, but these worthies (though far more Fundamentalist theologically than most chr*stians) only utter their fundamentalisms internally and seem to regurgitate the same old Voltairean/enlightenment garbage to the rest of the world. For example, as a Noachide I would appreciate some honest comments on Catholicism by the Rabbis on its errors. Instead, what do we get? They don't care about any errors so long as the Church is "tolerant" (you know, like Joshua was!). Witness the spectacle of Orthodox rabbis (though not all of them, thank G-d) invoking Vatican II (the higher critical council) and liberal Catholics because of their "tolerance." Unfortunately, the Orthodox Jewish community seems so hung up on tolerance and pluralism as the only conditions under which they may live safely that they are allergic to pontificating, and we Noachides believe they are the only religious leaders in the world qualified to do so! So the people we need to hear stay silent while everyone else never stops yapping, and the dreadful silence is only broken when a traditional Catholic violates "tolerance," and then we get not "you people are wrong and need to come around" but "you people should listen to your most radical elements." It sickens me.

Let's face it . . . only backwoods rural Southern Fundamentalists (both white and Black, though for some reason the latter are never seen that way) really seem to actually believe anything anymore. Why is it that every "illiterate" snake-handler and Hardshell Baptist preacher can thunder with righteous indignation while "the one true church" sounds like it's being run by the Campaign for Human Development? Doesn't this bother conservative Catholics at all? But if you've never been exposed to rural Southern Fundamentalism you can't know what someone converting from that background misses. And unfortunately, when one does find the rare articulate Catholic who comes close to the mindset of a Fundamentalist, they are usually fruitcake anti-Semites who blame the "Zionists" for every evil under the sun, and this merely reinforces the unbridgeable gulf between the two religions.

In fact, religion per se seems almost totally decrepit. Why is it that almost all religious leaders are chasing the atheist intellectuals for approval and slamming the "ignorant bumpkins" who have always been their most loyal constituency? Does G-d really love intellectuals so much more than common folk that gaining one of the former justifies the loss of millions of the latter? Religion as a whole deserves a kick in the tachat for its shameful betrayal of its loyal children (often condemned to win intellectual approval) by leaders who seem to prefer one Che Guevara to all the bumpkins in the world.

Ironically, the one exception to this rule is islam, which absolutely refuses to conform to he modern western worldview. And ironically, the Communists and ACLU-ers kiss its tush (even while referring to conservative chr*stians as "talibans," "al-qaedas" and "ayatollahs") while conservatives often sound like they want Saudi Arabia to adopt feminism as an official state ideology. As I said before, as anti-moslem as I am I will never engage in "theocracy"-bashing since I'm a Theocrat myself and to do so would be the worst form of hypocrisy on my part.

When will the religions of the world ever produce a leader with the simplicity and fearlessness of a backwoods redneck preacher or a moslem scarf-wearer?

49 posted on 05/25/2004 10:39:42 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ("Zakhor 'et Yom HaShabbat leqaddesho, ki sheishet yamim `asah HaShem 'et HaShamayim ve'et Ha'Aretz.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

I find very little to disagree with in your post (other than our theological differences). Thank you for going through a considerable effort to state your position.

Religious leaders are men and bow to men's frailties, including vanity and a desire to be liked by the "high-minded." No one, though, is beyond God's Will. In the end, all any of us can really do is pray for God's mercy and continue the work for which He uniquely fashioned us.


52 posted on 05/25/2004 10:59:29 AM PDT by pgyanke ("The Son of God became a man to enable men to become sons of God" - C.S. Lewis)
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