Posted on 05/24/2004 9:17:25 PM PDT by churchillbuff
MONTGOMERY, Ala. (AP) -- As president of the Christian Coalition of Alabama, John Giles is no stranger to a pew. Yet he remembers well the time he got lost in a Roman Catholic church.
"I couldn't even follow the order of service, it was so foreign to me," Giles says of that day some six years ago.
Since then he's found his way and a new home in the Roman Catholic church — a home that might seem foreign to the overwhelmingly Protestant church population of Alabama.
"I have to admit to you that the whole time that I was in that church service, I was reduced to tears, and I couldn't explain it," Giles said Monday in an interview with The Associated Press.
"In fact," he jokes, "you would have thought I had been spending the whole weekend down at the House of the Rising Sun down in New Orleans, that I had all this sin in my life that I had to get out."
In any case, Giles and his wife, Deborah, were received into the Catholic Church at St. Peter's Parish in Montgomery on Easter Sunday.
Such a decision normally wouldn't be a matter of public interest, but Giles says he anticipated the questions that have followed his conversion from the Protestant faith.
"It would be nice if my private, Christian walk could be my private, Christian walk, but it's very difficult in my job for that to be the case," he says.
Giles says he knew the questions would come because as a Protestant he, too, had mistaken notions about Catholics. And the most frequent question he gets from his friends is "why?"
With that in mind he wrote an eight-page letter explaining his reasoning. In it, he explains that he had attended a variety of Protestant churches in Montgomery, including Christian Life Church and River of Life Church.
But once he visited the Roman Catholic church, he found himself in awe of its history and ritual, particularly its use of sight, sound, smell, taste and touch in each service.
Trips to Israel and Rome spurred his curiosity. And the deeper he looked into the faith — which is the largest in the United States but lags behind Southern Baptists and other Protestant denominations in the South — the more he says he realized that many of his beliefs about Catholicism had been wrong.
"There is a perception among Protestants — you kind of have this perception that if you're Episcopal or Catholic, you're not even saved, you're not born again, which is totally a myth," he says.
He recalls one example from the New Year's holiday, which he spent in Florida with the chairman of his board. He had told the chairman of his and Deborah's plans to convert, and he says they were well-received.
"But we went to some other friends of theirs' house on one of the nights we were down there," Giles remembers. "And so we're sitting around visiting and this one lady was teaching a Sunday School class on cults. And she began to name off all the cults that she'd be teaching and named Catholic in there."
He acknowledges that the reaction by his Protestant constituents may be mixed.
"We didn't make this change to win friends and influence people and do it from a popularity standpoint, because we knew that in the state of Alabama, this is probably not a popular position to take in the Christian movement," he says. "So it remains to be seen."
But he hopes they, like he and his wife, will keep an open mind.
"We hope that we could have a small contribution to building bridges where there weren't bridges," he says. "Because Christians are Christians. There's no such thing as Christians and Catholics."
Why, is there a group of Klansmen you know who needs preaching to so their sorry butts will get saved, or are you intending to libel me. One wonders why many of you find the need to insuate or outright levy false charges against someone knowing that it is sin to do so. Guess Lord that you presume to tell us all is in you must be a Lord of lies and deciet in order to make the abundance of your hearts produce such bile. Oh, you forgot that your actions speak louder than your words?
Nowhere does the text of Revelation 5 indicate that Christ is "eternally presenting His sacrifice." It simply says that they see a "Lamb as it had been slain," ie He was recognizable as the one who had made the sacrifice. Seems to me to be a bit of a stretch to suggest otherwise.
In fact, look at the tense. These events are taking place in heaven, which can rightly be described as outside our time, and yet in the song the Lamb is said to be one who WAS slain, who redeemED them to God by His blood, who has MADE them kings and priests. Here, in the presence of God, the event is spoken of in the past tense, as something that has already taken place. It's not stated that He is being slain, is redeeming them, is making them kings. It has already happened, as I said, from God's perspective.
Another thing to note - Jesus has two roles, also described in that chapter. He is not just the Lamb of God, who came to take away the sin of the world. He is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, coming to exact judgement on the earth. How could He be perpetually, eternally offering the sacrifice of His death when He has a different role altogether to yet assume?
A parable is nothing more than a form of using metaphor to cloud the meaning of a story or issue. And while I didn't say Jesus was relaying a parable, he was obscuring what he was saying. He was talking in code on an open channel during wartime trying to tell the guys in the field, "the chair is against the wall. John has a long mustache." And he was blatent in saying to the apostles that this is exactly what he was doing because it wasnt' given to the unbelievers to know or understand. That was only given to the believers and the Apostles more specifically.
So, again, you're begging credulity that Eisenhower didn't just lay out the D-Day invasion plans to the Nazis and nazi sympathizers. Do you think about this stuff?
furthermore, I know quite well what prejudice is - which is why I took you to task on it.
1
a. An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts.
b. A preconceived preference or idea.
2. The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions. See Synonyms at predilection.
3. Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion.
4. Detriment or injury caused to a person by the preconceived, unfavorable conviction of another or others.
Just as you don't know what prejudice is, you're projecting on what worship is. You certainly don't know what veneration is. So, project and hide. If you think that helps your position, then cradle your delusion and suffer.
True - in bizarro world.
Sorry, but this is so opposite the purpose of using parables - or metaphors - that it... well, I'm speechless.
Shhh, don't tell; but, I think they all grumbled and ran off lol
The saducees and pharisees were sure they were right while Christ upbraided them. I've seen all this stuff before too.
Difference is, when I read Christ's words and he says he spoke in riddles to hide God's plan from the enemy, I can deal with that. I can't deal with stuff that has to be constructed from miles and piles of philosophy and can't be supported in scripture thus needing the miles and piles to try and excuse it. Christianity isn't a philosophy - that sets it apart from other religions. Christianity is a covenant between God and men. And we didn't author the covenant.
You have catholicism, I have Christianity. And these kind of talks let people see the difference. So, thanks :)
A Reformer on Free Republic? Are there more? Show me to them!
Hoo Boy. Another Reformer right here. I am so impressed.
I can say you have religious beliefs and have a right to them. I respect your right to them. But I also know what Christianity is. And before I'll call something Christian, it has to meet the biblical standard. Catholics are good people. And that pretty much goes without saying. I would never argue otherwise. On the otherhand, being good people with heartfelt philosophical beliefs doesn't make one a Christian. Believing in Creeds and councils and whatnot doesn't make one a Christian. Following masters in philosophy doesnt' make one a Christian. Quite the opposite.
Scripture sets down what a Christian is and how to tell the difference. You guys have your own set of standards and the two are oceans apart. Scripture gives us one system, you give us another. They are irreconcilable. So, say what you will, it isn't Christianity. Once upon a time it might have been; but, that time was long ago if it ever was at all.
Love ya as my neighbor; but, you can put a harley emblem on a Honda and it's still a honda. Funny thing is, if we were talking motorcycles, more people would be aware of the differences between a honda and a Harley than between Catholicism and Christianity or between Budhism and followers of Krishna. People are more aware of what they care to be aware of until they realize that there is a reason for concern. That's why I debate. There are a lot of cultists and philosophy wonks in the world that think they're Christians because somebody told them so. The followers of Jim Jones were really sure of themselves, right up to drinking the Koolaid. Had they bothered to study scripture instead of being told what it said, they might not have drank the koolaid. Then again, the Devil is pretty effective at using people to twist God's word and make it seem to say anything. Christ's response is mine, "it is written", not "it can be reasoned out".
Think about your own words. If 'it is finished' at 'the creation of all things' then it is, was, and ever will be occurring both at the 'creation of all things' and the 'end of creation' as well.
Where could there be any better proof of this statement than in your posts?
Yes, always remember charity is important in such situations. If you haven't already seen them, there are a lot of books about such things, so you know you aren't alone.
What I want to know is where is the account of God telling the story of the creation to man? Or was that something Moses recieved on Mt. Sinai?
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