Posted on 05/20/2004 10:50:06 AM PDT by Puppage
GALLOWAY TOWNSHIP, N.J. -- Twelve-year-old Gianna LoPresti wants to sit with her friends in the cafeteria. But she may need a permission slip -- from a judge, that is.
At Galloway Township Middle School, students must sit in the seats they're assigned to during lunch hour. The girl, a seventh-grader, has been cited three times for violating the policy.
Now, her father is suing the school, saying the rule violates First Amendment protections of freedom of speech and freedom of assembly.
"These are kids," said Giovanni LoPresti, 40. "It's not a prison."
School officials say the restrictions are aimed at keeping order in a lunchroom buzzing with 260 seventh- and eighth graders.
The dispute began two weeks ago when the girl returned home from school and told her father she'd been given detention.
"I thought she'd done something drastic," said her father. "I said `You had to have done something.' She said she sat with her friends and socialized at lunch."
The girl was found sitting in a seat she had not been assigned to and was given three detentions -- one for each week she had done it. Lunchtime detention consists of eating lunch in a classroom, under a teacher's supervision, away from the cafeteria.
LoPresti says the restriction is unfair because it assumes all students are potential troublemakers.
The girl, who has been punished previously for talking in class and once throwing a calculator onto a desk, is no troublemaker, according to her father.
On Monday, he filed suit in Superior Court seeking an injunction barring the school district from enforcing the policy.
School officials say the seating restriction has been in place for years and that parents are advised of it through student handbooks sent home at the start of the school year.
"The students are allowed to move around the cafeteria," said Schools Superintendent Doug Groff. "All they have to do is ask permission from teachers or the principal. It's not that they're restricted. It's just decorum."
Typically, the cafeteria has up to 260 students in it during lunch periods, he said.
"Normally, parents understand that we need some rules in schools. They expect that and they have an expectation. If you let kids wander wherever they wanted, the parents would say 'What kind of school are you running? You let the kids run wherever they want,"' Groff said.
Deborah Jacobs, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union's New Jersey chapter, would not comment on the legal merits of the girl's case.
She said free speech has restrictions as to time, manner and place, but that enforcing assigned seating in a school cafeteria was unusual.
"It sounds like an excessive restriction. I'm not aware of other schools with 260 kids who have resorted to this. This sounds overreaching to me," she said.
Typically, school principals -- not school boards -- make such policies for their buildings, according to Michael Yaple, spokesman for the New Jersey School Boards Association.
"Our sense is that it's not uncommon to have assigned tables or rules saying students can't roam about the cafeteria. The courts have typically given wide latitude to school administrators to maintain order and discipline," Yaple said.
Frank Askin, director of the Constitutional Law Clinic at Rutgers University's Newark campus, questioned whether LoPresti has a legitimate First Amendment claim.
"I certainly wouldn't want to take his case," said Askin.
In fact, no one has. LoPresti is acting as his own attorney.
Though she hasn't served the lunchtime detentions yet, his daughter said it's wrong for the school to tell her where to sit.
"I think the school thinks the students are going to cause trouble at lunch. It's wrong to punish the kids who do nothing. We need to talk to our friends during lunch," Gianna LoPresti said.
I'm not sure you meant your reply to be sent to me. If you did, it is extremely non-sequitir and I didn't understand your response.
If it was aimed at me we should clear a few things up. First of all I seriously doubt there are many Puritans at DU. Plenty of utiopianists and tolatarianists, but probably not many Puritans.
Pu·ri·tan ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pyr-tn)
A member of a group of English Protestants who in the 16th and 17th centuries advocated strict religious discipline along with simplification of the ceremonies and creeds of the Church of England.
puritan One who lives in accordance with Protestant precepts, especially one who regards pleasure or luxury as sinful.
adj.
Of or relating to the Puritans or Puritanism.
puritan Characteristic of a puritan; puritanical.
- - - - - - - -
Ok, with that out of the way, all I have to say, is:
1. Do you get to choose where you want to sit at work?
2. When you board an aircraft, do you have a seating assignment, or do you just go sit any ol' where you like (Southwest Airlines Excluded)?
3. When you go to a baseball game can you just go sit next to your buddy's in the luxury box because their your buddy's.
4. Is the purpose of public education to prime young people for a productive career and the ability to function in society?
5. If we teach our kids they don't have to sit where they are told in school, are we properly training them to suceed in the workplace or society. Remeber, you will have to live in and among these people and possibly manage or work with them.
Momfirst, my hat is off to you. Our kids are going to suffer their share of jerks for teachers in school, just as we had to do. Learning to put up with these is just a part of growing up and learning how to properly function in society.
Someone else being the idiot fool of all time never gave my children an excuse for their own poor attitude or behavior. Not that they didn't try it of course, lol!
We just never got sucked in, having a good and clear idea of what kind of adults we were hoping they would become.
And, for those of you who are fussing about assigned seating during lunch, what on earth are you thinking? There are all kinds of reasons for assigning seats during lunch perios, and not all of them are "fascist".
When I went to school, (clear back when we had to trudge three miles through howling blizzards), we never even got to go to a "lunch room"! We had to eat our brown bag lunches at our little desks, and the only diversion provided by the school were little cartons of milk passed out by the teacher who watched us eat with beady eyes.
I was usually weeping quietly into my waxed paper because I had a liverwurst and ketchup sandwich, and no-one would trade with me.
Liverwurst and KETCHUP! No! No! It has to be liverwurst and MUSTARD!
I did use a lower-case 'p' in 'puritan'. And I already own the OED, so spare me the etymology.
Okay, with that out of the way, I'll answer your queries:
1. Yes.
2. Won't fly under current circumstances - too insulting.
3. No, because they invite me.
4. Hahahaha! You're joking, right? The obvious answer is YES! The real question is, do we want the kind of society the public schools are conditioning youngsters to be 'productive' and 'functional' in. Soviet schools accomplished that.
5. Why are adults obsessing about controlling, in detail, where children sit at lunch-time? What an un-American attitude!
6. To answer a question you didn't ask, the public schools are at war with America's children, and with American ideals, and I hope the kids give the system all the respect it deserves.
I have been following the boxer discussion with interest. I have two Belgian Malinois myself, and adore this breed.
If you are going to be a 2 dog family, it is wise to have opposite sexes. The female will run the roost eventually, at least as far as food and the house is concerned, but will happily play back-up when it comes to challenging intruders or "furrin" beasts.
There is nothing worse than two bitches who fight all the time. Some have been known to fight to the death, while males will stop when it is clear that one is dominant.
Is that why no-one would trade me for a pb &j?
Oh, they are definitely clowns.
We bought Django July 1, 2000 as a 7 week old puppy. He has made me laugh EVERY DAY (no exaggeration) since.
So you think it'd be safe to get a girl for our dominant male? Salty has a Napoleon complex, and likes to bully smaller dogs, but he respects big dogs.
Yep. Looks like a bad actor to me.
So you honestly think this guy has case? He can't even get a lawyer to take the case because his argument is a farce. Where does it stop with your logic? If the students can make their own rules you will see the end of public education my friend. What it they want to "peacefully assemble" during the middle of Algebra class? Is that ok? There is nothing "un-American" about requiring a child to take a particular seat at lunch. I think you are the utopian. That comment is just plain ludicrous and without merit.
The issue is not about "when" students must follow the rules. Its about the concept of rules being enforced period.
Your argument is so misguided. The major problem with public education now is that the school staff can't enforce existing rules that are conducive to a proper learning environment because everytime they try to enforce one, some idiot like this guy causes a big fuss. Teachers don't get paid enough to deal with crap like media attention. We are lucky there are many left who work in the environment they have to work in now.
The threat is not order and discipline... it is teaching all this PC bullcrap that leads to this kind of nonesense. Thats why this idiot thinks his daughters "rights" have been infringed. Your stance is illogical and undefendable. You say the adults are "obsessing" on control of children. If this is obsessing, then adults have been "obsessing" on the control of children since the first parents existed.
If these kids wan't to talk or socialize, they can do that outside of school hours. If her father is so concerned about where she sits at lunch, why doesen't he find a private school that fits his and his daughters tastes. No, he, like you, thinks that school is a place to practice your own beliefs with complete disregard for other students. I don't recall any mass uprising by the parents in this school district because of this policy. No, most rational people understand the need for order and discipline in learning institutions.
If this kid makes it out of public school, she can eat with whomever she wants at work or in college. I have a hard time believing you believe your arguments. You sound like a student. Probably not a parent for sure.
The "war"? The "war on American school" children? You aren't serious are you. Where are you coming up with this garbage. You must just be a rabblrowser. The only "war" in our schools is the war against the PC crap and revisionist history being crammed into our next generations maleable brains that produces people who think like you. I'm sorry. I don't mean to be personal. It just shocks me that someone who is educated well enought to know the word etymology could sincerely believe what you typed in your keyboard. If you want to reply go right ahead but I just can't waste any more time conversing with a person who honestly believes what you are saying.
it seems to remind me of completely unfair and unnecessary laws that restrict everyone of liberties when attention should only be given to a few.
See post 209. You're right,someone doesn't have children.
Yes, Salty will probably rule the roost a bit while she is a puppy, but as she matures, she will gradually become more confident, and challenge his bullying tactics.
Males usually give way to females in the dog world. Letting her have her first heat might be a good idea, even though many of the vets advise against it. It goes without saying that you never leave her alone, or off leash at this point in time, and spay her soon afterword.
You need to establish yourself as the alpha figure in your pack, of course. You are the one who rules the pile. Then, they decide who comes next in the "pecking" order. You respect that, making sure that you feed them separately, and preferably in their crates. Expecting them to sit before you hand out any treats is also a good idea, and giving the dominant dog the first treat establishes and reinforces the "rules".
It is not a good idea to intervene in dog squabbles, usually. I would be watchful when you bring the new puppy home, and might ask the breeder if you can wait until the puppy is about 8 weeks old, at least. The adult dog will have had a chance to teach the pup some basic "dog" manners by that age. Some breeders will send them off a bit too young for those important lessons to have been taught.
When you bring the new puppy home, do not favor her, and spend a bit more "quality" time with Salty alone than you might tend to do. Crate train the puppy immediately, and when she is driving Salty nuts, put her in the crate for a rest. If Salty gets too agressive with the puppy, send him for a time-out in the crate immediately, with no comment. He may need some peace and quiet, too.
There are many advantages to a two dog household, and I always advise friends to have two. It is best to get one first, establish a good relationship with that dog, then get the second dog. They can play together, excercise each otehr, and do doggy things together that we two-leggeds just do not quite do as well.
Maybe. But I'd bet for damn sure we won't be a drone.
As I have posted before on this forum, it is up to American kids to shut down the evil public school system because their elders lack the moral courage to prevent the state from indoctrinating their children.
I'll let you be 'Exhibit A'.
End of story.
Committed socialists run and staff the public schools, and you want kids to respect their authority?
Damn! People such as you make me angry!
Slowly, but surely, the Nazi's are beginning to outnumber the conservatives on this thread.
Absolutely!
I would LOVE for the teachers/administrators of this school to be assigned to the inner city for a year.
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