Posted on 05/19/2004 7:45:48 AM PDT by Sir Gawain
CANNES, France -- Two questions involving the duration of events: (1) So how long, exactly, was the standing ovation for Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11"? And (2) Did President Bush actually remain in a Florida classroom, reading from My Pet Goat, for seven minutes after he was informed of the second attack on the World Trade Center?
Moore's anti-Bush documentary was received rapturously at its black-tie screening here Monday, and a friend told me the ovation lasted 25 minutes. In my report I suggested that Cannes ovations, like the estimates of parade crowds in Chicago, have a tendency to be exaggerated. Since I attended an 8 a.m. press screening, I was not inside the Palais des Festivals to clock it myself.
Now I have another source. The ovation lasted 20 minutes, according to Variety, which may be correct, because its reporters all carry stopwatches to check the running times of movies.
In any event it was "the longest ovation in the history of the festival," according to Thierry Fremaux, the festival's director. At a party Monday evening, I asked Moore. "It depends on when you start counting," he said. "Do you start with the beginning of the closing credits or when the lights go up? When they just wouldn't stop clapping, I walked out and they kept applauding in the lobby."
And as for Bush's delay in reacting to the attack on the World Trade Center? Conventional wisdom has it that the president was reading to schoolchildren when he got the news and quickly left the room.
The Moore version: He was informed of the first attack, went into the room anyway, was informed of the second attack, and remained with the students until a staff member suggested that he leave.
"The teacher in that Sarasota classroom happened to tape the whole event," Moore told me. "We'd seen other footage from the networks, but it was all edited. She just left the camera running. She said nobody had ever asked her for the film. Bush didn't instinctively jump up and go into action, but just stayed on autopilot until someone told him what to do."
(Excerpt) Read more at suntimes.com ...
It took the building manager of the place where I worked two hours to decide to close our building that day.
The most important factual evidence posted on this thread so far, is the fact that the Secret Service wanted Bush to stay there because they couldn't guarantee his safety at that moment.
That pretty much shoots down any crap anyone here is trying to spew that Bush didn't do enough after Card told him.
I think making sure the President doesn't get assasinated during while being attacked is high on the priority list.
Especially since there's very little the President could have done anyway, as there were no armed aircraft close enough to Washington to make a difference.
"Something".... duh.....
LOL
"Why do you think hack fantasist Moore is the one raising it?"
You forgot "FAT" in your description of Moore.
But Moore is only the tip of an iceberg of millions of people who've been asking these questions since 9-12-01. Josh Silverstein's recent taped interview where he admits to giving the order to pull down WTC7 later in the day only added fuel to the 'conspiracy' fire.
I am in 100% agreement with anyone here who says that Moore is a self-agrandizing liberal fatass. But that alone doesn't necessarily disqualify every single thing he says as 'tripe'.
Oh pleezzzz....what garbage. Silverstein and the conspiracy! My god...go away.
"Given the security situation, they probably felt that it was essential that the President not leave the classroom or the school until they could ensure that he would not be endangered in doing so."
Given the security situation and the fact that Bush's location was known, the LAST thing he should've done when the nation was under attack was hide behind school children. He should've gotten onto AF-1 ASAP. Sorry for the tykes' hurt feelings, but we were AT WAR.
Personally, I don't think he "hid" behind schoolkids, but I think the Secret Service's allowing him to stay there was a huge mistake for the very reason that it was an unprotected elementary school. You and I both know that terrorists would happily take out American kids if it meant also taking out the President.
You'd better give credit to Lyndon B. Johnson...
"If one morning I walked on top of the water across the Potomac River, the headline that afternoon would read "President Can't Swim".
Okay, you were the President knowing only two planes had been crashed into the WTC, and you scrambled jets to protect the capital. How many jets did you scramble? Who controlled the airspace, the FAA or the Air Force? From your certainty despite the lack of information, I guess the Air Force would have been ordered to shoot down every aircraft that was not diverted from the D.C. airspace. How many airplanes would have to have been shot down to ensure you got the one highjacked and headed for the Pentagon? Or are you suggesting that your military would have had perfect coordination and communication with the FAA at the area airports and all of the airplanes in the area so that you could discretely identify the one threatening aircraft?
Would you also have scrambled fighters to defend all nuclear power plants, chemical production plants and other potential targets for terrorists? Why didn't you put the military on world-wide alert since you couldn't be certain the attacks were limited to U.S. targets? With 20/20 hindsight of course you wouldn't because you know that only the capital and New York were targeted. But why would you implement plans to defend only the capital and not the rest of your nation? How would that have playied in Peoria and in the media? If you had scrambled fighters to protect everywhere, and an innocent aircraft was shot down, how do you think the public would have reacted and the mainstream media would have reported it?
When would you have had discussions with your military commanders to get their assessments of the situation? What if they had told you your desired reaction would be ineffective? The bottom line is that the President did not have sufficient information to implement any actions that could have prevented the 9/11 tragedies. The attack on America came from a direction in which we were unprepared. Despite your heroic expectations, our military is not in constant standby mode where they can prevent attacks on a moment's notice.
"With 20/20 hindsight of course "
I've long-ago (in this thread) admitted that this is all 20:20 hindsight.
Rather than respond to your well-written-and-intelligent post point-by-point (and I totally see your points, btw), I suggest you do a google search on 9-11 + timeline for more information on other POV of the details of that day.
If 9-11 had occurred under Clintax, we'd all be asking these questions. I'm simply too non-partisan to not ask them myself.
So then the issue would be with Secret Service protocol then...instead of the President...right?
Not to belabor the point, but the President did not have enough information avaiable to respond in a manner that could have reasonably prevented the Pentagon from being struck. Just be thankful our leadership reacted more quickly than the Germans did to the Normandy landings. Despite reports of massive parachute landings and the actual seaborne assaults, German reaction took several hours to be implemented, and in some cases days.
Bingo. How many planes were in the air at the time? 50? 100? 200? How do you know where the next target is? Sears Tower? Savanah River Nuclear Plant? GOlden Gate Bridge?
Great questions you asked. Well done. These "do something" people are great...until asked "do what".
Agree. Moore is one of the few people I truly loathe.
Yea. Having him walk outside in the wide open space without proper security is far more safer than inside a building.
Where in the hell do you come up with this crap?
"So then the issue would be with Secret Service protocol "
If I was a parent of one of those kids who all had targets on them for 30 minutes thanks to the President taking refuge in a school, I'd be pi$$ed.
"Having him walk outside in the wide open space without proper security is far more safer than inside a building. "
A. "more safer"? Duhhhhhhhh.
B. Umm, he wouldn't have been in the wide open space for long and as far as 'proper security' goes, his Secret Service was with him the entire time! How much more 'proper' can you get?
Not the point or the question. It has been offered in this thread that the Secret Service had Bush stay in the school because it was a place they thought they could control (given the fact that NOBODY knew the extent of what was happening in the seconds after the second plane hit) the facility. You said that "he" should have left and not "hidden" behind the kids. Apparently, if the Secret Service story is true, it wasn't his call. So your problem is with the Secret Service then...right?
"So your problem is with the Secret Service then...right?"
Based on your post, yes.
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