[Oberon]

Seriously...have you ever seen some of the whacking great discourses out there on the web, those enormous, closely-reasoned defenses of Calvinist theology? They're typically written by fiery young apologists who are thoroughly convinced in their doctrine, and trying to spread the word.

Which raises the question...if they really completely believe Calvinist doctrine, who are they gonna convince?

[kjam22]

I really think we see it similarly. And I have argued against the "hardened calvinist". Clearly the scripture teaches both principles. You and I can quote most of the scriptures from both teachings. Our simple human minds can't function like that. We have to have things either, or. But that's not the way it is with God.

However, I don't think either of those doctrines tells us taht we have to make the church look like the world or people wont' get saved. And certainly not that there are people in hell because we weren't creative enough in how we presented the gospel.

[CatoRenasci]

That's hitting below the belt...especially since we'll never know who's really Elect until it's too late.