Bayonet Brits kill 35 rebels

The Sun (UK) ^ | 5/16/04 | Unattributed

[Peter J. Huss]

Incredible.

This is one of the greatest stories of bravery I have yet read from the war.

(Commander McBragg's response: "Quite.")

[Robert Teesdale]

Now this is an example of the fierce, overwhelming moral force of the West. Damn good job!

Fifteen British soldiers are ambushed by 100 terrorists. They fix bayonets and charge, killing 35 and taking more prisoners than half their own number, with only three minor injuries?

Reminds me of a line from a book I read once. The local colonial administrators were warning the British major against beginning a campaign against the local insurgents, since he was vastly outnumbered and also new to the region. His response?

Goddamme, Sir! One British bayonet is worth a thousand native spears."

What we've all just seen displayed by the Argylls is the mettle which built the British Empire.

That, and the extraordinary heroism of one of our Marines, is a clear demonstration of an indisputable fact:

There is no culture, no military force, and no nation which ever breeds men to the degree of determination and bravery that is regularly exhibited by the soldiers of the United States and the United Kingdom.

God bless America, and God Save the Queen!

[Uncle Jaque]

RE:

"Col. Joshua Chamberlain and the 10th Maine...": :

Aaah... That would be the 20th Maine Infantry, at the Battle of Gettysburg PA, July 2, 1863. :

The 20th ME took a position at the extreme left of the Union lines, which had been beaten back by the Confederate forces of Robert E. LEE to a defensive position along Cemetary Ridge to the Southeast of the town of Gettysburg. Chamberlain held a crucial position known as "Little Round Top"


against repeated Confederate assaults, until his ammo was expended and his ranks decimated by casualties.

In stead of giving way or surrendering - which probably would have allowed the Confeds to flank and "roll up" the Union line for a repeat of the rout of both Bull Run Battles, and a probable attack by LEE on Washington from there - he ordered a wheeling bayonet charge down the hill and captured most of his presumptive captors.

This heroic scene is depicted in the movie "Gettysburg" and in the book "Killer Angels", as well as a classic work by John PULLEN, "The 20th Maine".

Remember; these weapons were long, 9.5+ lb. 3-banded rifle muskets - a serious hand to hand weapon in themselves - tipped with a 17" long tapering triangular cross-sectioned (to maximize hemmorage) socket bayonet.

Although official Army medical records indicate a relative few combat woundings from bayonettings, the burial detail tasked with disposal of the thousands of rotting, bloated corpses after a Battle didn't take time to document the manner in which their Clients met with their demise.

Soft lead .69 cal. round musket, .58cal. Minie' or smaller yet still lethal carbine or pistol ball, buckshot, cannister shot, shell fragment, saber, Bowie knife or bayonet made little difference; dead was dead.

But Veterans recounted how the bayonet was used with deadly effect a lot more than official records suggest. Napoleanic era Tactics using muzzle-loading weapons included closing with the enemy before he had time to reload and going buttstock to bayonet with him; the fight was often very close-up and personal... not to mention horrendously brutal.



Soldiers told of litteraly pinning a man to the ground with his bayonet, having to put his foot on the dying adversaries chest and twisting the bloodied blade repeatedly in order to withdraw it. Sometimes they just gave up and unfixed in order to get their rifle back, leaving the long, cold steel imbedded in the quivering corpse while they scrounged up another bayonet - which at that point there would be plenty available, their original bearers having no furthur use for them.

With the advent of smokeless powder, accurate, long range repeating small arms and machineguns, the frontal assault by Infantry proved (the hard way, of course) to be of diminishing tactical practicality, if not increasingly suicidal stupidity, and combattants seldom closed with an enemy.
The practice was on the way out by the end of the Civil War, after the horrific losses by LEE in Pickett's Charge at Gettysburg, and GRANT's dreadful slaughter of his Troops at Cold Harbor and Petersburg.

After WW-I some time (I'd have to look the date up), the Geneva Convention limited the length of the bayonet blade to about 8" (I'm not real sure on that figure - anyone know?) and it became essentially vestigial and symbolic; sort of a utility knife that could be, in rare and dire circumstances, stuck on to the end of a weapon.

I think that there was only one U.S. led "bayonet charge" in the Korean "conflict", and I'm not sure how that came out. Of all the Vietnam Vets I know, none of them tell about bayonetting anyone - although one told about being bayonetted in the leg by a VC while his position was being overrun, and had the scar to "prove it" (although I sometimes wondered about his credibility).

When I was in the Army (1967 - 70) we sure trained with the bayonet in Basic - remember;

DI: "What is the spirit of the bayonet?"

Trainees: (as loud as we could roar): "To KILL!!! To KILL!!!"

But then again, the M-14 was a real Battle Rifle, worthy of the bayonet.

I would not try to hit anyone with an M-16, as it might just pi$$ them off and make them want to hurt me. I'd just wrap it around the nearest tree if I could, to prevent them from using it against us prior to surrendering (The French Option). Were that not an option, I would prefer, I think, rocks or sticks to make a last stand with. You'd probably do better just throwing "jamming Jenny" away when the ammo ran out, and using that pathetic excuse for a bayo like the Nicuraguan (?) Corporal did a while back. (there was a post about him on FR).

I guess that they still train with them though, as a fellow Reenactor who joined up right after graduating from HS and is currently serving in the Falluja area with the 1st Armored CAV managed to cut herself on one while in Basic. Oh; BTW:

Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain was grievously wounded at the subsequent Battle of Petersburg, but returned as a General and was prominent in the Surrender of the Army of Northern Virginia at Appomottox in April of 1865.

As the defeated Rebels marched past the ranks of the Union Troops on their way to stack arms and strike Colors for the last time, Gen. Chamberlain brought his men to Attention, "Shoulder Arms" (not like the modern position by that command; almost a "Present Arms" carry with the rifle vertical at the right side) and saluted his former foes.

The Battle-weary Southerners had earned his respect, and he wasn't ashamed or afraid to admit it.

Chamberlain served as the Dean of Bowdoin College in Brunswick, Maine and 4 terms as Maine's Governor.

In the 1880s he returned to the State House as Provisional Military Governor in charge of State Militia during an emergency crisis arising from a hotly disputed election in which factions had taken up arms in the Capital of Augusta and were on the verge of an intrastate Civil War of their own.

The Old General heroicly yet peacefully quelled what might have been a very violent, bloody, and nasty affair until the political mess was ironed out and the Government of the State could be returned to Constitutional Civil Authority.

Chamberlain's tactics are still taught in Military Academys to this day. A true Rennicance man, devout Christian and genius, he taught all but one subject at Bowdoin, spoke 7 languages fluently, and was a virtuoso Cellist.
He wrote at least one book and there were several written about him - at least one of which you would probably enjoy reading.

But he seems to be best remembered for his pivotal role at Gettysburg...

"BAYONETS!; FORWARD!"

[r9etb]

Our soldiers have too many restants put upon them.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah f'n BLAH!!!!

In case you've missed it, our soldiers are killing a hundred or more salamikazes every damned week. Why don't you just shut up about it?

[r9etb]

I forgot to requote this: "Despite being outnumbered five to one, they suffered only three minor wounds in the hand-to-hand fighting near the city of Amara."

Sounds to me like the bad guys were outnumbered one to five.... ;-)

[AnAmericanMother]

My dad served with the old 79th Cameron Highlanders (since amalgamated out of existence) in Italy in WWII.

He always has told me that the Highlanders are great guys, fun to be with, polite to a fault . . . but don't p**s 'em off! He said without a doubt they were man for man the best fighting men he ever saw.

(How a Combat Engineer from Rome GA wound up serving with the 79th is a story for another day . . . )

[yarddog]

My Mothers family came from an island off the Western coast of Scotland.

I don't know if it is exactly the same as this outfit but I do know it is in the county of Argyle so I bet it is.

[Rebelbase]

"In case you've missed it, our soldiers are killing a hundred or more salamikazes every damned week. Why don't you just shut up about it?"

The problem is to have a lasting effect, our soldiers need to be killing 1000 islamakazies every dammned week.

[yarddog]

Interesting as my Father was also in the combat engineers in WWII.

I have never heard him mention serving with the Scots but he did say they were under Montgomery for a while. BTW, unlike everyone else, he really liked Montgomery.

[Uncle Jaque]

Ohhh; the POOR dead "Family Members"!

How insensitive! Unfair! [/DNCSpeak]

Well, like the man sez; "It's a start".

By those pics you post, it looks like it's still a pretty target-rich environment.

[r9etb]

1000 would be better, of course, but a hundred or two is still pretty nice.

[dljordan]

Nice picture but for the life of me how does the damn thing attach to the rifle? I don't see any muzzle ring, or maybe I'm not looking close enough.

[Snowyman]

You might be interested in this ,

http://www.geocities.com/celticchief/sgf-lfh.html

Ladies from Hell

It is not generally known that, during conflicts involving British Commonwealth nations, men playing tunes on the bagpipes often join the regular soldiers in battle. They are unarmed, their only weapon sheer courage. These are military pipers, and they are a tradition among nations with strong Scottish (or Irish) heritage. Of course, the foremost nation to make use of military pipers is Great Britain, with her lands emcompassing Scotland itself. In the UK, the Highland regiment tradition reaches back to the middle ages and even to Roman times, and includes the names of many large scale battles-- Culloden Moor, Waterloo, Balaclava, the Somme, Jerusalem, Dunkirk, El Alamein, Liri Valley, Gold and Sword Beaches, Singapore, and even up to the Falklands war and Desert Storm. Commonwealth nations, notably Canada, make use of military pipers. The Canadian tradition reaches back to the Boer War, and is marked with great battles well known to Canadians--Ypres 1915, Vimy Ridge 1917, Mons 1918, Dieppe 1942, Ortona 1943, Juno Beach 1944, and a slew of others. The other major Commonwealth nations, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, and India have all heard the sounds of the pipes in battle, at places like Gallipoli, New Guinea , Tripoli and Benghazi.

During the harsh trench warfare of the Great War, the pipers suffered horrendous losses, but the Highland regiments of the UK, Canada, and other Commonwealth nations were feared by the Germans, who called them "Ladies from Hell", referring to their kilts. It is interesting to note the variety of armies who have been at the recieving end of a Highlander attack and have heard the pipes droning. During this century alone, the pipes have signalled the approach of a hostile army to the Germans, Italians, Turks, Japanese, Chinese, Boers, Iraqis, Argentinians, Russians and various others.

More than 600 bagpipers were killed in the First World War, Second World War figures were similar. It is because of these men that the great Highland tradition remains in the armies of the British Commonwealth. Lest We Forget.

[r9etb]

Talk about timing -- looks like our guys got 51 salamikazes closer to the 1,000 mark.

[Logic n' Reason]

"Do not be afraid to be powerful. Cold War-era gambits of proportionate response and dialog may have some utility in dealing with practical terrorists, but they are counter-productive in dealing with apocalyptic terrorists. Our great strengths are wealth and raw power. When we fail to bring those strengths to bear, we contribute to our own defeat. For a superpower to think small, which has been our habit across the last decade, at least, is self-defeating folly. Our responses to terrorist acts should make the world gasp!"

Way to go, UK!

'Nuff said.

[ought-six]

Ah, the Brits. You gotta love 'em. They sure know how to get up close and personal with their enemies.

[ought-six]

My great-great grandfather was a Confederate cavalryman with NBF during the "unpleasantness."

[far sider]

"Cold steel ... they don't like it up 'em"

Yeah. Somehow I think they would have preferred warm glow sticks.

[ought-six]

Good pic of Rorke's Drift. I am half English (my mother, bless her soul, is from Lancaster, and is approaching 80) and half American by blood, but 100% American by birth and desire. My mother is half Scot (the Lindsay clan) and half English.

[ErnBatavia]

It all starts here....Pugil Sticks (but ours in the 60's looked a little more rudimentary)