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To: elfman2
The Russian Army defeated more Germans than we did and took far more casualties. The German high command preferred us as occupiers.

German resistance had a chain of command coming from its highly organized army, that once broken or hired, could be mopped up. The effective parts of the Iraqi Army were vaporized and the militia-based remnants ran off or were largely ignored. Those raggedy militia elements are now emerging and are hard to target. There are probably more parallels to Iraq in Vietnamization. Let's hope it works better.

42 posted on 05/15/2004 1:32:07 PM PDT by gandalftb
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To: gandalftb
"There are probably more parallels to Iraq in Vietnamization. "

Yes, Of course! We are attempting to reapply one of the most failed aspects of Vietnam in Iraq, despite the wishes of our military.

,Whoever defeated Germany, Russia or the US. is absolutely irrelevant to our high risk gamble in Iraq. Germany was defeated. Iraq was not, and that’s all that’s relevant to our current problem. Whatever the status of 1st Mar Div, I MEF, or the 82nd is tactical, not strategic. Strategically, we opted to quit the war early.

The Iraqi resistance has the advantage of support from Syria, al Qaeda and Iraq. This will be a long simmering problem, tying up our troop for years. We will probably come up with some sort of positive results, but there will be so much grey in our “victory” that it will be un-saleable to the Arab world as a model. That’s a big failure in my mind.

The other big failure is that this will be so prolonged, muddied and political that there is absolutely zero chance of attempting a military defeat of another terrorist nation. They know this so there will be next to zero intimidation that we can level on them as well.

I think that after Iraq, there will be no consensus on what went wrong in Iraq. People will lose sight of the 10k lb elephant in the room and pick at TACTICS, calling them strategy. The elephant is that we never defeated Iraq, didn’t enter many cities and neighborhoods. That’s indicative of a superpower in dissolution.

44 posted on 05/15/2004 2:04:03 PM PDT by elfman2
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To: gandalftb
"my Marine experience is that they don't worry much about their effect on presidential politics. They're too consumed with being Marines."

We see vary opposite sides of the same coin my friend. My Marine experience is that they don’t “respect” the effect of the short term horizon of presidential politics on the death of their men. They’re “faithfully” and rightfully consumed with avoiding a repetition of the lunacy of Vietnamization

And in the case of Fallujah, they’ll go so far as to prematurely insert a skeletal Fallujah “brigade” rather that sacrifice more of their men to a CIC gone wobbly. God Bless those guys!

46 posted on 05/15/2004 2:19:27 PM PDT by elfman2
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