Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Iraqi Falluja Force....
ABC/Reuters ^ | 5/14/04 | Ibon Villelabeitia

Posted on 05/15/2004 11:04:59 AM PDT by gandalftb

FALLUJA, Iraq (Reuters) - The Iraqi general leading a force that controls Falluja said he had no plans to disarm insurgents, defying demands by U.S. commanders who appointed him and raising tension with Marines encircling the restive city.

Mohammed Latif, a former intelligence officer who now heads the Falluja Brigade, also told Reuters in an interview late on Thursday that U.S. forces should go home if they wanted peace.

"Weapons are not the problem. They are easy to collect," he said. "What we need to do is rebuild our country. There is no need for American soldiers. I am sure the Americans would be happy to go to their homes."

Latif's comments came after he held lengthy talks with Major-General James Mattis, the commander of the 1st Marines Division encircling Falluja.

The two appeared to have markedly different perspectives on how the Falluja operation was going.

But Mattis, repeating comments from other U.S. commanders, sounded much less at ease and said time was running out.

"We have to get done what we came to get done. I am always a bit impatient," he said. "We want it all: peace, the weapons and the foreign fighters dead or out of here. Negotiations are going fine but they can always go faster."

(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: falluja; fallujabrigade; fallujah; iraq; latif; marines
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 next last
To: Prospero

Good post, spot on. But, this fight ain't over by a damn sight.


21 posted on 05/15/2004 12:17:13 PM PDT by gandalftb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: gandalftb
the artificial deadline is driving the installation of a civilian authority -prematurely-

the war posture morphed into policing

political correctness has reigned in the military in an attempt to minimize civilian casualties, resulting in arguably, more military deaths, or a sustainment of military deaths

unleash hell ought to be standing orders
22 posted on 05/15/2004 12:22:31 PM PDT by railsplitter (with extreme prejudice- destroy the enemy... foreign and domestic)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: gandalftb
"Our strategic error in winning the peace… "

We never had peace. We never finished the war.

We thought that we didn’t need a WWII like investment and thought that we could compromise our way through, much like Vietnam.

23 posted on 05/15/2004 12:32:15 PM PDT by elfman2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: gandalftb

"The last 10% is tricky, Latif and the locals are clever and shifty, they don't care if we crater Al-Jawlan, they know we have $80 million to put in their pockets to rebuild it."

Here is the other interesting tidbit: That part of town is the poorest section of town, with narrow streets, a nightmare to go through in a storm operation.

It is also the *kurdish* section. The insurgents went in and abused the kurdish locals.

We could perhaps see how it goes and try to replace Latif if he is not fully cooperative, while not 'breaking' the whole agreement.

On balance, even with the heavy weapons not turned in, this is more successful than unsuccessful. The 'resistance' is not resisting.


24 posted on 05/15/2004 12:32:22 PM PDT by WOSG (http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com - I salute our brave fallen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: EternalHope

The most commonly given reason is that we bowed to political pressure from the Iraqis. However, a different explanation is possible. Perhaps we decided Al Sadr had to be dead or defanged first, thus reducing the "outrage" factor in other parts of Iraq when the job is finished in Fallujah."

I believe that our military understood, correctly, that the real challenge in Iraq to our success is political not military, that we had to create conditions FOR IRAQIS TO BE WILLING TO STAND UP FOR IRAQI DEMOCRACY.

Our willingness to put Baathists in charge of forces created an interesting reaction: All the Iraqi saddam-haters realized that WE MIGHT GIVE THEM BACK BAATHISM if they didnt get their act together.

We have put Iraqis on the spot, and in the process have accelerated the democratization process.


25 posted on 05/15/2004 12:35:42 PM PDT by WOSG (http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com - I salute our brave fallen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
"Sadr's people went to Falluja just for weapons, they didn't stay. BTW most of the c-4 car bomb explosives and IED's throughout Iraq came from Fallujah. The IED ordnance was being dug up by locals from where Saddam's army buried them outside Al Taqaddum air base and sold in Fallujah. The Marines stopped all of that. That is a HUGE victory by the Marines.

Indeed. I havent been keeping stats, but I sure have noticed we dont here as many "X troops killed today by a roadside bomb" anymore. Good news.

26 posted on 05/15/2004 12:37:22 PM PDT by WOSG (http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com - I salute our brave fallen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Prospero

"Pity we can't brag about our having won the Battle of Falluja. Most of those who sought to kill us are taking a well-deserved dirt nap."

Brag away. :-)

Meanwhile, the America-haters will pretend somehow all those graves in Fallujah filled by Marine snipers were Fallujah's "innocents" killed by incredibly bad shots.


27 posted on 05/15/2004 12:41:08 PM PDT by WOSG (http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com - I salute our brave fallen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: WOSG
"On balance, even with the heavy weapons not turned in, this is more successful than unsuccessful. The 'resistance' is not resisting."

The insurgents are not resisting because it’s politically impossible for us to attack until they do. They’re playing this perfectly!

Also, there is virtually nothing to resist. They won. Next they’ll rebuild, and be a safe haven for resistance to the elected government, and totally untouchable.

The Kurds were chased away weeks ago, there is no Kurdish area.

I don't trust these blog stories. Propaganda.

28 posted on 05/15/2004 12:48:18 PM PDT by elfman2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: WOSG
"I believe that our military understood, correctly, that the real challenge in Iraq to our success is political not military, that we had to create conditions FOR IRAQIS TO BE WILLING TO STAND UP FOR IRAQI DEMOCRACY."

You've nailed it.

29 posted on 05/15/2004 12:49:21 PM PDT by Rokke
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: WOSG
""The last 10% is tricky, "

It’s called compromise. Yes, it’s tricky.

30 posted on 05/15/2004 12:49:21 PM PDT by elfman2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: elfman2

" The insurgents are not resisting ... "

Their motives are least relevent.
The fact of pacification is most relevant.


31 posted on 05/15/2004 12:50:37 PM PDT by WOSG (http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com - I salute our brave fallen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: WOSG

Only about 2,000 Kurds ever lived in Al-Jawlan, they were mainly very poor refugees from Syria. My understanding is that they all left because of the abuse by the Syrian rebels who hated them and because of the fighting. Most are in refugee camps west of Baghdad to be resettled in Kurdistan.


32 posted on 05/15/2004 12:51:03 PM PDT by gandalftb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: WOSG; Ernest_at_the_Beach
"Indeed. I havent been keeping stats, but I sure have noticed we dont here as many "X troops killed today by a roadside bomb" anymore. Good news. "

It’s payback for quilting.

33 posted on 05/15/2004 12:51:26 PM PDT by elfman2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: elfman2

"Also, there is virtually nothing to resist."

An Iraqi brigade under Marine command and 2 marine contingents in the area. Plenty to resist if they wanted to stop the inevitable process of democracy in Iraq.


34 posted on 05/15/2004 12:52:32 PM PDT by WOSG (http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com - I salute our brave fallen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: gandalftb
I wonder if the Marines are simply waiting for the reorganization to settle out:

Belmont Club ~~The Rumsfeld-Myers Mission

_________________________________________________________________________________________

WASHINGTON, May 14, 2004 – Two new military commands will stand up in Iraq May 15, replacing the current coalition military organization.

Multinational Corps Iraq and Multinational Force Iraq will replace Combined Joint Task Force 7.

Coalition military spokesman Army Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, at a Baghdad news conference today, said the change addresses a concern that a combined joint task force headquarters was not sufficient to handle the military workload in Iraq efficiently.

"It's certainly more than a formality," he said. "It is trying to get the proper command structure for the days, weeks and months ahead."

Kimmitt explained that Multinational Corps Iraq will focus on the tactical fight -- the day-to-day military operations and the maneuvering of the six multinational divisions on the ground. Army Lt. Gen. Thomas F. Metz will command the corps. Meanwhile, Multinational Force Iraq will focus on more strategic aspects of the military presence in Iraq, such as talking with sheiks and political leaders, and on training, equipping and fielding Iraqi security forces.

Multinational Force Iraq "will certainly be involved in the tactical operations, but only to the extent that they have somewhat of an operational and strategic impact on this country," Kimmitt said. Army Lt. Gen. Ricardo S. Sanchez, current CJTF 7 commander who will head MNF Iraq, already has been working the strategic issues, and the new command structure will enable him to focus more of his time and energy in that direction, Kimmitt said.

_________________________________________________________

And note this from "Wretched" :

The most striking thing about this new command arrangement is that appears to be an end run around the Coalition Provisional Authority, a shifting of at least some political functions away from a State Department structure directly into one directly under the DOD. For those who saw the events in April as a defeat for Rummy and a discredit to the DOD policy, this evidence suggests that the President may see things the other way. At first glance it is a high level endorsement of the kinds of negotiations which have transpired at Fallujah at Najaf rather than their condemnation. This reading may not be borne out by subsequent clarifications. But it certainly looks that way.

35 posted on 05/15/2004 12:55:04 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got!!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: elfman2

I agree, it took 6 years of pacification in Germany before there was an election. We fought remnants of the Nazis and took thousands of casualties. The holdouts called themselves "Werewolves" and were mainly old school SS.


36 posted on 05/15/2004 12:56:03 PM PDT by gandalftb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: WOSG
"Their motives are least relevent. The fact of pacification is most relevant."

I guess then the motives of each Palestinian cease fire agreed to by the Israelis was “irrelevant”, only the temporary lull for rebuilding.

My father told me that, "Any fool can learn from his mistakes. If you’re smart, you’ll learn from the mistakes of others." We need to learn from Israeli mistakes.

There is no substitute for victory, certainly not a convenient ceasefire promoted as “pacification”.

We have a difference of opinion on this that won’t be resolve here. Time will tell.

37 posted on 05/15/2004 12:58:03 PM PDT by elfman2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: WOSG
"An Iraqi brigade under Marine command "

Please, they’re under the “direct” command of someone who says there are no insurgents, no foreign fighters and no need to confiscate heavy weapons. Why the heck would they resist that?

38 posted on 05/15/2004 1:00:10 PM PDT by elfman2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: gandalftb
"I agree, it took 6 years of pacification in Germany before there was an election."

Unlike Iraq, we defeated Germany. We went into every neighborhood and committed whatever was necessary. The difference is as profound as night and day.

39 posted on 05/15/2004 1:03:01 PM PDT by elfman2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

I think the reorganization is due to the ineffectiveness of CentCom/Abizaid and CJTF7/Sanchez in their overall strategies and lack of control of Abu Ghraib. Their tactical control is being taken away without replacing them and making our leadership look confused and uncertain. We now will have a winning the war group and a winning the peace group, what was needed all along.


40 posted on 05/15/2004 1:09:54 PM PDT by gandalftb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson