Pope expected to tell Bush he is wrong on Iraq: Vatican

AFP ^ | May 13, 2004

[freeangel]

Well, good. That means he won't be asking us to rush onto the dark contintent to be standing up for the Christian/Catholic massacres then. I guess he will just make a periodic statement condemning mass murder there.

[Codie]

Is this war accomplishing good?

[roylene]

I am not catholic and I didn't go to Viet Nam but I wish the Pope would just 'shut up'. I am sick to death of people who call themselves Christian (of any ilk) who are cowards and refuse to fight for what is right. This is war! No bridge can be built with people who's sole existence is to kill us.

[Arthur McGowan]

No, but I wonder how the Pope would have reacted if the Reformation took place during his reign/lifetime?

Funnay you should ask, because IT DID. That is precisely what HAS been going on since 1965. And this Pope has dithered. Raymond Hunthausen, Rembert Weakland, Howard Hubbard, Matthew Clark, Joseph Bernardin, and other openly gay, heretical bishops have destroyed their dioceses with impunity. Complaints, documents, photographs, from suffering laity have piled up in Rome for 40 years, including this Pope's 25-year reign, but nothing has been done. The next Pope must be a man who has the testicles to remove ten American bishops the day he is elected, and then to start removing one after breakfast each day for months thereafter.

[Revenge of Sith]

"To be fair we don't know his personal opinion, and, really, how much complexity can he understand?"

That's true. The Pope is an old man who has delegated too much authority to the Vatican bureaucrats in recent years. Two members of the Curia who John Paul II appointed, Cardinals Ratzinger and Kasper dislike each other and issue contradictory statements and the Pope doesn't even intervene to resolve their differences.

[tiamat]

NJ_gent wrote:



If everyone listened to the Pope, I'd be writing this in German.

---

Yep.



Not many people know that.

Thanks.

[Parmy]

Beats me. The Vatican bureaucrats with their soft as a woman's hands need to take care of the plank in their own eyes before they start worrying about splinters in others.

[tiamat]

rhombus wrote:

Excuse me? I would say that beheadings, mass murder with airplanes, and the taking of hostages shows a lack of understanding of the cvilized world which I can only call surprising. Does the pope have any comments about the wrongness of beheading? How about the wrongness of illegal oil deals with genocidal maniacs? Huh? Huh? (sound of Italian crickets chirping)

---

Glad it's not just me noticing those crickets.

Lots of folk on FR criticize the Muslims for not more strongly denouncing the sort of thing you just named.

SO WHERE IS THE VATICAN? WHY AREN'T WE HEARING ANYTHING?

The long silence is way too akin to "Business As Usual in Sand-Land".

[Arthur McGowan]

Catholics believe that the Pope cannot teach error concerning a restricted set of matters--faith and morals--in a restricted set of circumstances.

There is ample foundation in Scripture for this belief: The promise made by Jesus that his Church would last until the end of time, and that he would remain with it and guide it.

Popes can sin, and have done so. Popes can be dead wrong about a lot of subjects.

[Merciful_Friend]

"And we must give top priority to the Israeli-Palestinian question, which is the root cause of terrorism."

That someone in the Vatican makes a statement like this is revolting but sadly par for the course. They are simply regurgitating the canard promoted by despicable Arab regimes who are themselves clearly the "root cause of terrorism." Anyone with half an objective brain in their head can see this to be the case. From their comfy rooms in Rome they continue to prop up monsters, by failing to condemn them, by equating true horror and oppression with minor transgressions of free, democratic nations.

As a former Catholic, I'm glad I don't have to defend such garbage emanating from the Papal chambers.

[Arthur McGowan]

The Pope is to blame for the total mental confusion among Catholics on this issue of "separation of Church and state."

The Pope should have started removing bishops who snuggled up to pro-abortion politicians, and allowed their priests to do so, year ago. The Pope should also keep his mouth shut about matters on which he CAN be mistaken--i.e., matters other than the content of the Faith, and Moral principles.

[normy]

Do Catholics believe the Pope is unable to teach error on faith and morals or should not teach error?

[Freebird Forever]

The Pope is a figure head for a religious organisation who barely follows the words of Jesus.

You're preaching to the choir here.

The pope carries no sway in my life.

[weegee]

Cardinal Pio Laghi said the US-led occupation force in Iraq should be replaced by "a multinational presence which is not dominated by those who wanted and fought the war."

Does this include the presence of nations that have long resisted action on Iraq (nations like France and Russia dating back to at least 1997) because of lucrative financial interests they had in dealing with Saddam when the rest of the world was boycotting Iraq?

Maybe if they are willing to do a mea culpa and contribute their ill gotten gain to the rebuilding effort.

[Arthur McGowan]

The Pope is protected from teaching error on Faith and Morals, when he INTENDS to teach the entire Church, and INTENDS his teaching to be binding on the entire Church. It should be easy to find the exact words of Vatican Council I (1870) on this matter via Google.

[normy]

The Pope is protected from teaching error on Faith and Morals, when he INTENDS to teach the entire Church, and INTENDS his teaching to be binding on the entire Church. It should be easy to find the exact words of Vatican Council I (1870) on this matter via Google.

Thats ok. I'm not that interested. I have just never heard that and I hoped you could quickly clear it up for me. I assume if the Pope is teaching the Catholic Church, God will make him to stand and he is therefore incapable of lying concerning specific teaching.

[TexasRepublic]

"We must build bridges with Islam..."

There is no negotiating with the devil - he is the "Father of Lies". And if the devil isn't chasing you, then he has already caught you.

[Mr. Mojo]

"he actions of US troops are damaging efforts to bring religions closer together"

Yeah right. ...If it weren't for a few American MP's putting panties on the heads of terrorists in an Iraqi jail Islamists would be much a more peaceful bunch and would most likely be building bridges of friendship to Christians, Jews, Buddhists, and Hindus the world over. </ sarcasm>

[Stagerite]

Islam and Christianity are natural enemies with common mutually exclusive goals.

Your editiorial change is wrong; Islam and Christianlty share many common goals; e.g. getting to heaven, controlling large masses, etc..

A mathematical definition for "mutually exclusive" is given in ...

"Two events that have NO outcomes in common are called mutually exclusive. These are events that cannot occur at the same time."

[mrbillxx]

There are a ton of books written on potential scandal and corruption in the Vatican banking system and of a "Freemason" group amongst the Cardinals.

There is also a conspiracy theory that JPI was murdered as he was planning to "clean up" the Vatican.