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To: NJ_gent; Poohbah; section9; Dog; Howlin; Miss Marple; PhiKapMom; BOBTHENAILER; veronica
One of the biggest causes of 9/11 was the stuff that happened in the wake of the Church Committee hearings. The restrictions and decimation of HUMINT. The Gorelick memos that built up a "wall" between law enforcement and intelligence.

Torricelli's leak in 1995, which caused not just new restrictions, but also caused agents to stop cooperating.

We tied CIA's hands behind its back, and we now wonder why they didn't warn us. We can't have it both ways.
6 posted on 05/12/2004 8:19:32 AM PDT by hchutch ("Go ahead. Leave early and beat the traffic. The Milwaukee Brewers dare you." - MLB.com 5/11/04)
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To: hchutch
"The restrictions and decimation of HUMINT."

Agreed, but much of this was due to a much higher reliance on SIGINT, as opposed to simply giving up on intelligence gathering altogether. The CIA needs to hire more people to get more feet on the ground - no doubt about that. Where there is some question is how involved the CIA should be domestically. We certainly don't want the KGB running around the US, nor do we want to gag our counter-intelligence and counter-terrorism forces. There are definitely some difficult questions to ask in that area in terms of who should be allowed to do what, between the CIA and the FBI. I'm of the opinion that the FBI should remain our primary counter-terrorism force domestically, as they have the most experience operating domestically. Obviously, there are changes to be made in methods and procedures.

"Torricelli's leak in 1995, which caused not just new restrictions, but also caused agents to stop cooperating."

This entire culture of "my case is my turf" has worked largely against us. We need to break this down and start getting people within the FBI and law enforcement to talk to one another. Again, when you bring the intelligence community into the picture, it adds a lot of questions; questions I'm not going to get into at the moment because we could spend all day talking about 1/10th of them.

"We tied CIA's hands behind its back, and we now wonder why they didn't warn us."

The CIA wasn't the only one handicapped. Look at what the FBI has to deal with - even today. Do we know how many people have come into this country in the past year? Do we know who crossed the Mexican border last night? Do we have the slightest clue when 90% of current visa holders are? Our immigration system is a patchwork destined for failure. Our border controls are a joke. Osama could, literally, be walking around on US soil right now. Seriously, if he crossed over from Mexico, how would we know? The FBI has had, and continues having, to deal with an unknown number of unknown foreigners who may or may not have malicious intent roaming freely throughout the US. That, combined with the FBI's culture of 'my case, my turf' makes for very dangerous situations.

What I don't think we need are more draconian laws, more controls over our citizens, or more police surveillance and tracking. Terrorists used banks last time because they were convenient. Next time, they could just as easily ride in from south of the border on donkeys loaded with wads of cash. Pouring over my bank account isn't going to prevent a terrorist attack. Controlling our borders, though, goes a long way to keeping us safe. As a reminder to just how bad off our immigration system is, don't forget that several 9/11 hijackers received visas after the suicide attacks. We have no idea who's coming into this country, and until we do, all the laws in the world won't help us.
8 posted on 05/12/2004 8:45:51 AM PDT by NJ_gent
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To: hchutch
One of the biggest causes of 9/11 was the stuff that happened in the wake of the Church Committee hearings. The restrictions and decimation of HUMINT. The Gorelick memos that built up a "wall" between law enforcement and intelligence.

Agreed, and the Patriot Act isn't necessary to correct any of those problems.

19 posted on 05/12/2004 11:35:07 AM PDT by ThinkDifferent
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