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To: af_vet_rr; Servant of the 9; Travis McGee
Ashcroft lied about how he would use the Patriot Act by using it's powers for other crimes. He cannot be trusted not to do it again. Any future Democratic administration certainly can't be trusted. Anyone want to guess how Jamie Gorelick would use these powers domestically if she was Atty. General?

Imagine what Janet Reno might have done if she had these powers. I am more worried about democrats having these tools, than us not having them, perio.d

Or we can imagine what President Hillary will tell Atty. General Chuck the Schmuck Schumer to do to the NRA - i.e. to designate it as a "terrorist organization" after one of its members goes nuts and kills a few dozen people (a drugged-up or paid-off pseudo member, that is). Then 4 million + gunowners will be instantly denied almost all of their rights, followed quickly by either a civil war or similar treatment for other political opponents. Have the lovers of freedom learned nothing from the Reichstag Fire?

I don't think that Bush & Co. will abuse the Patriot Act too much (though its already being done) - I worry about the people with less honest and honorable intentions, and a decided hunger for power who will come after Bush. Heck, it doesn't have to be Hillary, it could be some unknown who's now 16 who gets elected President in 2032. The fault lies not with those proposing the Patriot Act's successor, but in the legislation itself. It is a potential tool of tyranny, and any student of history knows that any tool that has ever been invented has, at least once, been used. This world has had more than enough examples of tyranny for me to state that we don't need more of it, especially here.

23 posted on 05/12/2004 2:54:23 PM PDT by Ancesthntr
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To: Ancesthntr
Yep, just imagine President Kerry or Clinton and AG Schumer turning this against the NRA or the GOA as "terrorist supporting organizations."
30 posted on 05/12/2004 7:34:17 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Ancesthntr
Or we can imagine what President Hillary will tell Atty. General Chuck the Schmuck Schumer to do to the NRA - i.e. to designate it as a "terrorist organization" after one of its members goes nuts and kills a few dozen people (a drugged-up or paid-off pseudo member, that is). Then 4 million + gunowners will be instantly denied almost all of their rights, followed quickly by either a civil war or similar treatment for other political opponents. Have the lovers of freedom learned nothing from the Reichstag Fire?

It wouldn't be just the NRA. Liberals are always eyeing the net, wanting to impose more government regulation, oversight, monitoring, etc. (all in the name of protecting the children, women, minorities, etc.). I could see sites like FR being banned or heavily monitored (after all, one of the largest sites on the internet dedicated to a distrust of the government as well as a large membership of firearm owners).

The fault lies not with those proposing the Patriot Act's successor, but in the legislation itself. It is a potential tool of tyranny, and any student of history knows that any tool that has ever been invented has, at least once, been used. This world has had more than enough examples of tyranny for me to state that we don't need more of it, especially here.

Unfortunately, way too many people are scared of the big bad world and want the government to protect using them any means necessary. They don't get it - eventually somebody will come along that will use those tools against the subjects, err citizens. Like you said, history is fully of this. Unfortunately, most don't look past the last 10 years or so.

34 posted on 05/13/2004 7:15:16 AM PDT by af_vet_rr
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