A Nation Divided (Conservative Roundheads vs liberal Cavaliers – who will win the war?)

The Seattle Times ^ | January 9, 2004 | Joel Kotkin [The Washington Post]

[quidnunc]

America 2004? Actually, no. This was the lamentable state of affairs in mid-17th century England, as it teetered on the brink of civil war. But there certainly is something disturbingly familiar about this description of a body politic dividing into two unbreachable camps.

Like England under Charles I, when the Cavaliers — the royalist supporters of the king — and the Roundheads — Puritan upstarts led by Oliver Cromwell — went at it for seven years of war, the United States today is becoming two nations. This is not merely the age-old split between income groups, as Sen. John Edwards kept suggesting in his unsuccessful campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination, but something even more fundamental — a struggle between contrasting and utterly incompatible worldviews.

Some describe the conflict as one between the "red" and the "blue" states, the right and the left, conservatives and liberals. But even though no one is about to behead our ruler and overthrow the government, as Cromwell's forces did when they captured Parliament in 1649, I find the parallel of the Cavaliers and the Roundheads to be the most apt. They grew to hate each other so much that they could no longer accommodate a common national vision. "I have heard foul language and desperate quarrelings even between old and entire friends," wrote one Englishman on the eve of conflict, and much the same could be said of us today.

The questions in our own uncivil war are: Is anyone winning? Which America most likely represents the future of our country?

The political division has grown wider in recent years. Now a clear geographic and cultural divide is emerging as well. Demographic studies show that Republicans and Democrats are less likely to live next door to each other, attend the same churches or subscribe to the same media.

America's Roundheads cluster in the South, the Plains and various parts of the West, while the Cavaliers inhabit the coasts, particularly the large metropolitan centers of the Northeast and Pacific Northwest. Each side has its own views, confirmed by its favored media. Fox TV, most of talk radio, the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Sean Hannity speak for the Roundheads, supporting President Bush and America's global mission. The mainstream media, the universities and the cultural establishment, including most of Hollywood, are the voices of the Cavaliers, whose elites, like many of England's Cavaliers and Charles I's French wife before them, are most concerned with winning over continental opinion and mimicking the European way of life.

-snip-

[billbears]

It has everything to do with this. A group that chooses to separate itself peacefully from the union should not be attacked by the militia. As evidenced by my quote from Jefferson. Of course a good part of the 'militia' is over in a foreign land 'spreading democracy' and from the looks of it will be there for awhile

[throopmanley]

truly a conundrum.

Quakers, presbyterians, anabaptists and jews all living in harmony but none of them could stand the catholics and unitarians.

[The Scourge of Yazid]

I don't know if I'd qualify precisely as a "Puritan-basher." I do kind of have a problem with Cromwell, seeing as how he would have probably had my head on pike lickety-split had I live in Ireland 4 centuries ago. The whole absolute dictator thing kind of bothers me a little too. Note sarcasm in tone of this post.

[Zionist Conspirator]

I have to disagree with the author in that he's got the comparison backwards.

The political left has always had more in common with the Roundheads than the Cavs, and does now more than ever. Think about what a Puritan is: A loud obnoxious person from the northeast who thinks that he knows everything, thinks that everyone else is less "pure" and less intelligent than him, and spends his energies trying to tell everybody else how stupid they are while enforcing his dictates on how to live one's life upon them. Add the bitter hatred that they exhibit towards the sitting head of state and you've got a perfect description of none other than John F. Kerry.

Yep, here come the Dixiecrats, y'all.

Funny, but this is exactly what the northeastern libs think of us down here in the Bible Belt. Oh, and it's down here that you find tiny denominations like the Primitive Baptists who still adhere to the Calvinist theology of Cromwell.

Has no one on this forum ever heard of a little thing called "prohibition" that was championed by the ancestors of today's heartland conservatives and opposed by big city liberals?

I suppose you would prefer FDR to Herbert Hoover, GOPCap.

[The Scourge of Yazid]

I don't want to re-hash the whole history of the Civil War (god knows we have enough mind-numbingly boring Ken Burns documentaries that serve exactly the same purpose), but who fired the first shots at Ft. Sumter. Hmmm?

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

It's a little easier to picture John Kerry & friends smashing stained glass windows and carrying off priests in stocks to prison...with crowds jeering.

[Zionist Conspirator]

I don't know if I'd qualify precisely as a "Puritan-basher." I do kind of have a problem with Cromwell, seeing as how he would have probably had my head on pike lickety-split had I live in Ireland 4 centuries ago. The whole absolute dictator thing kind of bothers me a little too. Note sarcasm in tone of this post.

Actually, you're right on those points.

[GOPcapitalist]

Funny, but this is exactly what the northeastern libs think of us down here in the Bible Belt.

You wonder why they think of the Bible Belt like that? Take a hint: evangelical and fundamentalist christianity is NOT a derivative of New England puritanism (unitarianism, however, is).

[A.J.Armitage]

Think about what a Puritan is: A loud obnoxious person from the northeast who thinks that he knows everything, thinks that everyone else is less "pure" and less intelligent than him, and spends his energies trying to tell everybody else how stupid they are while enforcing his dictates on how to live one's life upon them.

You have no idea what you're talking about. None.

[The Scourge of Yazid]

As Gene Wilder would say: "Thannkkkk you SIR..."

[Zionist Conspirator]

It's a little easier to picture John Kerry & friends smashing stained glass windows and carrying off priests in stocks to prison...with crowds jeering.

Which religion does Kerry belong to, eh?

[The Scourge of Yazid]

Sorry for my ignorance, but what pray tell, is a "Calvinist Libertarian?" Is that kind of like a meat-eating vegetarian?

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Liberalism.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

The Skull and Bones variety.

[GOPcapitalist]

I suppose you would prefer FDR to Herbert Hoover, GOPCap.

Nope. FDR was an obnoxious and arrogant yankee who used the government to legislate how people should live their lives through a socialist disaster called the new deal. Hoover was problematic in his own right (The Hoover creations of Smoot Hawley and the RFC were not much better than many of Roosevelt's big government programs) but was definately the lesser of two evils.

[Zionist Conspirator]

Sorry for my ignorance, but what pray tell, is a "Calvinist Libertarian?" Is that kind of like a meat-eating vegetarian?

Actually, any religious libertarian is similarly oxymoronic--especially pre-Vatican II Catholics.

[A.J.Armitage]

You should also take note that the direct theological heir of New England puritanism today is the unitarian church

You're an ignoramus.

[GOPcapitalist]

You have no idea what you're talking about. None.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur. Look it up if you don't understand.

[billbears]

Because of a broken agreement made by the previous administration. And good grief, we just killed one horse...

The point still stands. A state that passes legislation to secede should be allowed to do so. Lord knows Massachusetts waffled on it enough and Jefferson had no problem with it. If California, along with a few other states were to vote tomorrow to leave, they should do so. I think we're at the point it's either that or another war within the next few generations

[A.J.Armitage]

Sorry for my ignorance, but what pray tell, is a "Calvinist Libertarian?" Is that kind of like a meat-eating vegetarian?

Well, do you mean libertarian as in philosophy of the mind, or as in political philosophy?