Posted on 05/06/2004 10:40:48 AM PDT by Francisco
Your limitations are telling.
the fact that a woman cannot be forced by anyone to wear it
Tell that to the burkha-wearers in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia.. Young women died in SA because the religious police would not let them escape a fire without their full-dress burkhas.
that will happen with any theocracy dominated by men.
Where is the reform movement in Isalm ? This has been discussed extensively here on FR and in analysis by those writing about Islam.
It is not enough to plead the excuses of misogyny.
I don't believe you would enjoy your status under law and custom 500 years ago.
The status of the average woman in the West even 500 years ago compares favorably with the status of Muslim women in the Middle East today. Whereever changes and improvements occurred, they occurred on appeal by Western woman to the equality named in the scriptures, of which it is evident that you have only a passing acquaintance.
In comparison, women in Middle Eastern Islamic countries have the status of women in the West with which to compare their own situation, which is lacking by comparison.
If every woman in the world were able to choose where she wanted to live, how many women do you think would be hanging with the Muslims?! But it's not an Islamic thing! LOL
If you perceive the Church as contradicting the Scripture that she teaches is inspired and inerrant that is a problem.
That might call for a Reformation.
I choose to separate faith from church
We all rely on a trustworthy Authority.
So when Leviticus tells everyone to shun you during menstruation and after birth, and Paul says you should be subjugated, those are just customs? What authority decides what is custom and what is law for all of Christianity?
Young women died in SA because the religious police would not let them escape a fire without their full-dress burkhas.
The Saudis won't even let women drive cars, although there is no law in the Quran stating so, and there is a long tradition of female Muslim traders who drove the then-equivalent of cars.
Where is the reform movement in Isalm ? This has been discussed extensively here on FR and in analysis by those writing about Islam.
Small and non-fanatical, which means they don't make the news. But their major fanatics (Wahabbi sect) and non-fanatics had the start of their battle long ago, which the British helped the fanatics finally win almost a century ago.
Whereever changes and improvements occurred, they occurred on appeal by Western woman to the equality named in the scriptures.
Okay, show me the scriptures for equality in the Bible, and for each one I can show you scripture for inequality, as well as Quran verses for equality and some for inequality.
The evidence just doesn't support the claims. The world beats a path to the West, which has its roots in Judeo-Christian culture, for its quality of life for women, not the reverse. Sorry, the proof is in the pudding. Western women are not clamoring to live under Islam or in the countries in which it is predominate.
Nasty. Reminds me of those exorcisms gone wrong these days where the kid dies.
Islam was founded in an extremely misogynistic society, and the Quran has many rules in it to improve the status and lives of women, as well as protect them from abuse. If not up the the level we'd want, it was at least above the level that was currently there -- and above the level of culture in Christian cultures at the time in many ways. Unfortunately, that society Islam was founded in basically ignores the good stuff and enforces anything that can be interpreted to subjugate women.
The stuff I hear from some of these Imams flat-out contradicts the Quran, but their illiterate followers wouldn't know any better. There was a dark time in Christianity when the populace was illiterate and couldn't read the holy works for themselves to see where they were being lied to, and to see everything in context.
Western women are not clamoring to live under Islam or in the countries in which it is predominate.
And I personally know of one example of fleeing to the West. But they are doing that because Christianity has somewhat grown up and doesn't obey the old laws that subjugate women. Plus our culture has grown up so most ignore the old laws that seek to subjugate women.
timely bump given the C.A.R.E. woman situation...
Thank you for finding this and bumping it. Maybe it should be reposted? Just this morning I had a conversation with someone (Protestant, I think, but I've heard this from Catholics, too) who was saying that the situation of Muslim women was fine, that wearing a burka was truly liberating, etc., and that there really wasn't any difference between Christianity or even Judaism and Islam. I am appalled, and from the point of view of a woman, not only appalled but truly alarmed. OK, make that terrified.
I think there's a serious need for education here. As the Pope pointed out, there's a very big difference, and we've got to discuss it honestly. It doesn't only relate to the area of violence, but the entire world view of Islam. And as you say, it is NOT the same as Judeo-Christian world view.
I wrote to the Pope in support of his comments, and one thing that I said is that I think women have a lot to be concerned about with the advance of Islam, and that I hoped he would take into mind the need to defend women from it. I hope whoever is the flunky at the Vatican in charge of reading e-mails to the Pope keeps a little tally of people's concerns and will put another check mark next to the "slave status of women under Islam" box.
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