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To: expatguy
Nonsense, This area is less than 2 sq miles. How is that "losing the war." And you people bitch about the liberals having no guts. It is shameful to hear all of this "the sky is calling" horsesh!t on FR. This article confirms nothing other than the media is out to use this campaign for their own ends. Why help them? Wars ar not movies, things like this happens.

Why believe some reporter over military spokesmen? This is what liberals do.

39 posted on 05/03/2004 5:20:43 PM PDT by CasearianDaoist
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To: CasearianDaoist
"In war, there is no substitute for victory." - Gen. Douglas MacArthur

Spin it any way you want, but in Fallujah, we settled for something else, and I don't see how that's arguable.

53 posted on 05/03/2004 5:28:38 PM PDT by squidly (I have always felt that a politician is to be judged by the animosity he excites among his opponents)
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To: CasearianDaoist
The need has arised, and what did we do. Yes, we "handled" them with our military alright until the media, public opinion and fear of angering the "arab street" caused us to stand down.

We are a superpower that in the mind of many Muslims is impotent and becomes frozen with fear at the prospect of harming "innocents". This is our Achille's heel. The "equalizer". All of our technological superiority, our Stealth bombers, our ICBMS, become useless. Our enemy has adapted and has learned from Vietnam how to bring a superpower to it's knees.

We never once had control of Fallujah, our enemies have and have always maintained control there. Our enemies took a stand in Fallujah and vowed to fight to the death. We vowed to find those responsible for the atrocities and bring them to justice. A month later we stand down after being chastized by Kofi Annan, the media and the "Arab street" et al. Mission unacomplished and yet we walk away from the fight and have the audacity to proclaim victory.

You and many others mention how this is all part of our grand strategy in Iraq to have the Iraqis handle this problem in Fallujah. Why? Is it because we can't handle the problem ourselves? That is exactly what the "arab street" thinks and what Al Jazeera is reporting to Muslim countries worldwide. In minutes the "message" that gets out worldwide is that the Americans don't have the stomach for war. They don't like to get their hands dirty. Make it dirty and messy for them and they retreat with their tail between their legs. Given faith in Allah and courage the infidels can be beat. Only with 'divine intervention' could David beat Goliath.

It does not take a brain surgeon to figure out that letting religious fanatics think that God is on their side only increases their numbers and makes them stronger. Sadr's hand in Najaf is now strenghened by what transpired in Fallujah and not weakened. The "holy city" of Najaf is now shielded by the hand of Allah. The infidels know this and fear Allah knowing that he will smite and crush them should they even consider to attack the city. Ultimately it is Satan who fears God.

We need to come to the realization thta there are no "innocents" in Fallujah. The innocents left when the fighting started, what remains in Fallujah is sympathizers, lookouts, human shields and those feeding, housing and supplying the 'holy warriors' defending Fallujah.

The solution was simple. Surround Fallujah. Demand that those responsible for the atrocities be handed over. But nothing happened. The next step would have been to drop leaflets and announce in Arabic that those true "innocents" wishing not to get hurt to leave the city immediately. Not to broadcast rock music or stupid stuff like "you people fight like goat herders". My gosh, just imagine how poor little 'Abu the innocent goat herder' feels about that - you insulted him now and chances are he will join the ranks of those opposing us.

Give them one week to clear out and then level the city. They can all have a secure job later rebuilding their town with new improved and modern sand huts. In fact, they will be so busy rebuilding their town that they won't have the time nor the energy to even think about causing trouble. Any hatred they have will be directed at the dead 'holy fighters' who obviously did not have Allah on their side and not the Americans. They will be happy and friendly later because they have nice new mud huts to live in.

A simple solution really and the message then that gets out to Najaf, The cleric Sadr, Al Jazeera, Syria, Pakistan and any others contemplating the same is that America is here and we mean business. We mean what we say. You mess with the bull and you get the horn.

Oh and the old regime, the generals returning is complete stupidity. These are the same people who imprisoned and tortured these people. They need to be put on trial and dealt with. The last thing we need to be doing is giving these old Baathist weapons and putting them in charge. If anything they need to be given a shovel and hoe and get to work.

Telling ourselves and trying to convince ourselves that we are winning is complete nonsense. We need to be telling and convincing the Iraqis and the rest of militant Islam worldwide that we are winning. So far we are not doing this.

54 posted on 05/03/2004 5:28:53 PM PDT by expatguy (Fallujah Delenda Est!!)
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To: CasearianDaoist
Why believe some reporter over military spokesmen?

If you have a consistent statement from a Military spokesman, please post. So far they don't seem to know what to say either.

55 posted on 05/03/2004 5:28:56 PM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: CasearianDaoist
"This article confirms nothing other than the media is out to use this campaign for their own ends. Why help them? Wars ar not movies, things like this happens."

Thank you! So very well said.

I'm not an expert in military matters, but $hit happens, especially in wars.

And thanks to the 24/7 news cycle, and blatant media bias, we are exposed to more $hit than good news.
72 posted on 05/03/2004 5:40:42 PM PDT by proud American in Canada
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To: CasearianDaoist
I am with you. We criticize liberals for hating the country but our very own are the keyboard generals who all think they can do better and have simplistic answers to what is a very complex situation over there and very little trust in GWB.
144 posted on 05/03/2004 7:28:40 PM PDT by cajungirl (<i>swing low, sweet limousine, comin' fer to Kerry me hoooommmee</i>)
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