Replies

First, thank-you for being civil in replying to my post.

*"This fight is not over" is the comment from one marine commander. Hear that?*

I do, indeed. But, given the pattern in Fallujah to date, I would feel much better hearing it from the Chairman of the JCS, and on national television.
Look, I--and most of the folks posting with my general position--am not clamoring for the flattening of the whole of Fallujah, or for some kind of isolationist withdraw from Iraq, or for anything of that nature in between. We *want* our efforts to succeed in Iraq; we are, for the most part, *thrilled* that Saddam is gone, and that the effort was undertaken in the first place.
But many of us simply disagree with the way this *specific* battle has been managed to date. When you talk about the "repositioning" of Marines, I say: I've heard that story before. The year was 1975, not 2004, and the city was Saigon, not Fallujah. It raises hackles and reminders of an humiliating American fiasco not easily forgotten for those of us who lived through it. Apples and Oranges to some extent? Sure. But the rhetoric is virtually the same--and there is no denying that we are "repositioning" away from Fallujah with the enemy in control of the city--and after taking precious casualties.
Anyway, you make some cogent points, but I'm afraid we're going to have to agree to disagree to some extent about them. Regardless, I do appreciate *the way* in which you presented them, *sans* the "you're an armchair warrior!" approach that has made an all-to-frequent appearance in this thread.

"The year was 1975, not 2004, and the city was Saigon, not Fallujah. "

Oh please. No comparison...

"It raises hackles and reminders of an humiliating American fiasco not easily forgotten for those of us who lived through it."

Today also bears absolutely no resemblance to Saigon 1975.

I've posted on the whole Vietnam 'debunking' story. The fact is, the USA spent a lot of lives and treasure *winning* a peace in 1973. Thanks to anti-war defeatist Democrats, in 1974 and 1975 we threw away that peace and that victory, and did not lift a finger to help South Vietnam.

A huge army swept from the North to the South. With B-52s we could have destroyed that army and South Vietnam could have, on the ground, done the rest... but we did nothing.

bugging out of Saigon was a foregone conclusion of our unwillingness to fight this new war that broke out 2 years after we achieved peace in Vietnam. Our air support could have saved South Vietnam at virtually no danger to the US.

"But, given the pattern in Fallujah to date, I would feel much better hearing it from the Chairman of the JCS, and on national television."

We got better than that 3 weeks back. We got a message of resolve and a vision from President Bush. We also have had plenty of words of resolution from CENTCOM and the whole chain of command. They are *VERY* clear about the mission. A free and democratic Iraq based on the political process that CPA and IGC and UN and Iraqis have agreed upon.

This will succeed, unless these terrorists derail that process.

We have the resolve to win, and we have an acheivable vision - a democratic Iraq at peace with its neighbors.

What we are discussing now is the Strategy to achieve that. Some of us dont like that Marines were not allowed to finish the job in fallujah. Okay, but dont imagine that just because that hell-hole has thugs running around that town that our political process will fail.

This is far different from 1975, when the anti-war Democrats had hollowed out our resolve and had no vision for Indochina except to leave it to the whims of Communist predators. That made Communist victory a foregone conclusion.