Howitzers Are Leaving Slopes for Tour of Duty

The Washington Post ^ | May 2, 2004 | Rene Sanchez

[neverdem]

Even at ski resorts, wartime brings hardship.

On the slopes of Mammoth Mountain and Alpine Meadows, high along California's Sierra Nevada range, resort operators have grown accustomed to using five leased Army howitzers to blast loose dangerous drifts of snow packed high on mountainsides.

"They work really well for avalanche control work," said Pam Murphy, senior vice president for Mammoth Mountain ski resort.

But the military wants the big guns back. It needs them for troops fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Army officials came knocking for the artillery cannons a few days ago, saying they had no choice but to break their deal with the ski resorts because the weapons, once surplus stock, now have to be hastily spruced up and shipped out to the front lines overseas.

[snippy_about_it]

I wonder, do we still manufacture them, or can we?

[Darksheare]

It'd be a good idea, the closest thing so far has been RAP rounds, or Copperheads.
But teh two haven't been mated as a single idea.
The trouble is making the missile tough enough to survive the stress of being fired out a howitzer.
MLRS could do the job fine, IF they made a munition for it that acted as such.
Though ATACMS is supposed to give the semi-capability of 'cruise missile'.
(It isn't a cruise missile per se, and it IS pretty big for a cruise missile.)

It's a good idea, not sure why it hasn't been done yet.
Don't know if it's been looked into offhand.

[Darksheare]

We do and can.
The M-119A1 is still having parts tooled at Rock Island Arsenal.
And the article's pic, posted down in thread, is of an M-119A1.

[Darksheare]

"What the h*ll, have that many cannons been demilitarized, sold, converted to inert PGMs or melted?"

Two words: Eric Shinseki
He had a stated purpose and goal to reduce teh number of artillery units.
Well, light towed artillery was slashed since the 105mm round doesn't have the same 'damage' induced from it's rounds as a 155mm.

[bvw]

Shoot if some New Zealand sheep farmer can make a pulse-jet cruise missle, we should be able to rig up a ram jet one fired from a howitzer. Of course why not just a slower one launched from a cheap tube.

[Darksheare]

The R&D guys would probably be better at answering that, as I worked with the finished product, the M-119A1 howitzer.
But I don't see why one couldn't be made.
The Copperhead came about from an idea for a Naval shell, or so I was told, and they enclosed all the shock sensitive electronics in acryclic plastic and rubber style stuff.

The hard part would be getting the propulsion to pop out and light up.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Army Fact File

[neverdem]

Do you recall any stories within the last year or so where they discussed using old artillery tubes for inert precision guided munitions, like Jdams, for targets in populated areas.

[ATOMIC_PUNK]

[Darksheare]

Yup.
I remember those, penetrating munitions, howitzer tubes filled with explosives converted into a bomb.
The tubes shown in one graphic were off the M-119 towed howitzer series.

[Wombat101]

'cause ya can't drive a MLRS in the hilly, rocky a*s-end of Afghanistan and keeping aircraft (which may be needed elsewhere) on standby for targets gets expensive and is a maintenance nightmare. If the troopers in Afghanistan had more indigenous (and more mobile) artillery of their own, it would relieve some of the pressure on existing air assets.

Additional theory: During the Vietnam war artillery was situated on key hills overlooking strategic areas. These little artillery camps were known as "firebases", and they were very effective, being able to place a high rate of accurate fire in a 360 degree arc. Could we be attempting to ressurect the firebase tactic in Afghanistan? The howitzers their talking about can not only be towed into place, but are easily airlifted by helicopter as well. Could be that with all the emphasis in the last 20-30 years on tracked artillery that perhaps we've not been buying enough of the older guns?

[Cannoneer No. 4]

I am not sure they are in production right now

[Redleg Duke]

The problem with the MRLS is that their submunitions have too high a dud rate!

[Redleg Duke]

That picture appears to be an M-102. As an old M-101A1 man, I have a particular affection for that old warhorse. If you put the new Pantel on it, you would have a winner!

[Redleg Duke]

In a word..."YES"!

[Poodlebrain]

Okay, so the Army needs them back. That's just fine. What I want to know is what type of projos the ski resorts fire? Who does the FDC work? Do they shoot registration missions? Who performs the PMCS on the howitzers? Who inspects the tube after firing to make sure it has been properly cleaned? How do I get a job in which I get paid to fire artillery rounds without the threat of counterbattery fire (it's not like they advertise for cannoneers in the local classified section)?

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Guided Bomb Unit-28 (GBU-28) BLU-113 Penetrator

The bomb was fabricated starting on 1 February,[1991] using surplus 8-inch artillery tubes.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

artillery is a predominant method of avalanche control in the U.S. The advantage of this method is that explosive shells can be fired any time and in any weather. Another advantage is that artillery shells can also be fired into nearby rock surfaces, to increase the effect of the explosion. There are currently a variety of artillery pieces being used, but the bulk of the work is done by 75 and 105 mm recoiless rifles. The advantage of these guns is that they can be easily (and sturdily) mounted on a light support structure and easily used. 75 and 105 mm howitzers are also used, but to a lesser degree because of the difficulties in firing the gun and finding a location with sufficient support. While there are many advantages for the use of artillery, there are also some disadvantages. These include: schrapnel, overshooting, duds, limited ammunition, and limited replacement parts. The biggest of these problems is the occurence of duds, which leaves live explosives on the side of the mountain.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Apply to be an Avalanche Control Technician

[neverdem]

Thanks for the links. This last one has a typo though. It's a 106mm reckless rifle.