Agent Shoots Self During Gun Safety Presentation

Associated Press ^ | May 1, 2004 | Associated Press

[dread78645]

You're right about the other agencies, but I thought that they used some 'alleged drug' excuse, along with 'illegal weapons' in order to get the original search warrants and used drug laws & DEA rules to justify their position. If so, then DEA would have been at least superficially or indirectly involved.

No the DEA wasn't involved.

The claims of "drug" manufacturing & distribution was floated to get Gov. Ann Richards to allow the BATF to use TNG Helicopters.
Without the "drugs" nexus, the Posse Comitatus act would prohibit using assets military for domestic law enforcement.

[RebelTex]

"The claims of "drug" manufacturing & distribution was floated to get Gov. Ann Richards to allow the BATF to use TNG Helicopters.

Yeah, I remember now. Guess I just assumed that the request to Gov. Richards would have had to come from the DEA instead of BATF. Thanks for refreshing my memory.

[RebelTex]

"What does GOLF have to do with GUNS?"

How did GOLF get in this conversation? Are you refering to the game of golf or to something else?

[FreedomPoster]

Wait a minute! You say DEA played no role whatsoever at Waco, then turn around and acknowledge their role in the initial unnecessary botched raid. Which is it?

DEA got the ball rolling trying to video a huge raid at budget time. They have plenty of culpability for the events at Waco.

[endthematrix]

"was speaking April 9 to about 50 adults and students organized by the Orlando Minority Youth Golf Association, witnesses and police said. "

The Orlando Minority Youth Golf Association began September 1991, following a successful and encouraging meeting between concern citizens; T.J. Dorsey, D.D.S.; Marvin Jackson Prevention Coordinator, The Center For Drug Free Living; and the Director of Recreation, City of Orlando, Don Wilson. The idea of minority youth golf program became reality.

The Recreation Department agreed to provide used club, gloves, a field designated for practice and golf course playing, when available. Video and tapes were also provided by the City Recreation Department. The center for Drug Free Living agreed to provide assistance in recruiting youth and to provide drug prevention education. With Dr. Dorsey as chief administer the program was underway.

Today we have over 100 children ranging from ages 6 to 17 training in the golf program and local tournaments. Our plan is to further develop the children to qualify for high school and college teams around the country. As a result we seek scholarships and grants to assist the program and produce quality golf athletes.

http://www.omyga.org

That is where the DEA stepped in.

[norcalvet]

Wait a minute! You say DEA played no role whatsoever at Waco, then turn around and acknowledge their role in the initial unnecessary botched raid. Which is it?
DEA got the ball rolling trying to video a huge raid at budget time. They have plenty of culpability for the events at Waco.

Uhh, no, rmh47 said:

To the best of my knowledge, DEA played no role whatsoever in the events at Waco. BATF was the agency responsible for the initial raid, and the FBI's HRT (Hostage Rescue Team) took over after the BATF team was shot up by the Branch Davidians.

Which is exactly how I remember it.  The drug angle was simply used as legal justification for the use of military assets, i.e. aircraft, armored personnel carriers, and combat engineer tanks. The DEA involvement was not required for this. Of course, who knows who was involved clandestinely...

[rmh47]

Thank you.

[dread78645]

DEA got the ball rolling trying to video a huge raid at budget time.

s/DEA/BATF/g

THE UNWARRANTED WARRANT: THE WACO SEARCH WARRANT ...

[Steel and Fire and Stone]

Really dumb. He removed the magazine, but there was already a bullet in the chamber. Then he passed the gun around to students to inspect. DEA - wow.

I can understand how a guy might get distracted in front of an audience. For example, I'm a great driver, but sure-as-shooting, the moment when I'm trying to teach my teen age kids something while driving is the most likely moment I'm likely to make a stupid driving mistake.

That said, knowing how to "safe" a weapon before turning it over to someone else is "weapons training" 101. I taught my son how to do this when he was seven or eight yeas old - if he found any sort of semi-auto, he'd know how to drop the mag, clear the chamber, lock open the slide, and turn it in to an authority.

Perhaps this guy was trying to explain that a semi-auto "could" have a round in the chamber, and still be "loaded" even if the mag is removed. But still, anyone who's had handgun training should know better than TAKE A LOADED HANDGUN to such a demonstration. There are inert, practice rounds that can be used for dry-firing; he should have taken a half dozen of those things.

There was an rookie officer shot and killed - maybe this is 10 years ago now, in Southern California when his training officer and he were stopped in a parking lot, using "unloaded" weapons to simulate a care stop. I guess the training officer was correcting the new cop's on-the-job errors. The guy should have cleared and safed both weapons, or even had practice weapons in his car for that purpose. A stupid error killed the rookie.

It's just amazing and sad that these things still happen. I can recall one incident when I was firing with my son (then about 12 years old) at a range. The range rules (or at least my military training) dictate that no weapon leave the firing line loaded. I was putting away the weapons we had out, and one that my son had been firing, and I moved the weapon from the firing line to a table in the rear area to put it away. When I opened it, I found out it was loaded. I didn't realize my son had reloaded it and left it on the firing-line platform. No one but I knew of my error, and it was no where near lethal (you have to make about a half dozen handling errors to actually discharge a weapon in error; I only made one.), but it was such a stupid mistake that I still kick myself over it. I should have cleared and safed the weapon as soon as I picked it up; never made that mistake again. No matter when or where I pick up a weapons, if the slide is not already open, I check it, and lock it open before moving anywhere with it.

SFS

[norcalvet]

After reading the article, it's not clear to me if the DEA agent actually handed his weapon to someone else, or merely showed it to them while keeping it in his grasp.

Nevertheless, he still obviously made a major mistake somewhere. Which is why, as you describe, safety is always of paramount concern when handling firearms.

I'm wondering how, even if he missed the round in the chamber after supposedly checking it and having someone else check it, how the weapon still managed to discharge if all he did was release the slide. Unless there was a major mechanical malfunction that resulted in a slam-fire, he would have had to pull the trigger after the slide went home. If he had been squeezing the trigger of a modern firearm of the type typically used by law enforcement, it would have required the trigger to cycle (forward, click, back) after the slide fully cycled (back to hammer cock and then forward to locked) in order to release the hammer. Also, if the weapon was "pointed at the floor" as the article describes, how did the projectile end up in his thigh? Once again, the press (even Fox News) leaves a lot to be desired when reporting the pertinent details.

I also question, as you do, doing such a demonstration with live ammo present. Shouldn't this have been done at a firing range with small groups, with the weapon pointed down-range? Or like you say, with a non-functioning weapon?
And by the way, why is a DEA agent teaching gun safety to "adults and students organized by the Orlando Minority Youth Golf Association"? Doesn't this seem odd? Shouldn't they be teaching kids the dangers of drugs and leave the gun handling to the BATF (ok, maybe that's not a good idea either). Maybe it's futile to ask why it wasn't an NRA instructor doing this, or why they were even attempting it at all.
After such an error in proficiency and judgement, this agent should be fired, at the very least. There should also be repercussions for the superior of his that authorized such a demonstration.

[Grut]

...DEA played no role whatsoever in the events at Waco. BATF was the agency responsible...

I have believed for years that the only reason for the BATF is that it gives DEA agents someone to look down on....

[R. Scott]

He then pulled back the slide and asked an audience member to look inside the gun and confirm it wasn't loaded.

I guess the Orlando Minority Youth golfer had a sense of humor. “No, officer - there’s no round in the chamber.”

[AmericanMade1776]

OBVIOUSLY THIS GUY NEEDED SOME GUN EDUCATION! ORLANDO, Fla. — A federal drug agent shot himself in the leg during a gun safety presentation to children in what police describe as an accident. His bosses, however, are still investigating the incident. The Drug Enforcement Administration (search) agent, whose name was not released, was speaking April 9 to about 50 adults and students organized by the Orlando Minority Youth Golf Association, witnesses and police said. He drew his .40-caliber duty weapon and removed the magazine, according to the police report. He then pulled back the slide and asked an audience member to look inside the gun and confirm it wasn't loaded. Witnesses said when the agent released the slide, one shot fired into the top of his left thigh. The gun was pointed at the floor The agent was treated at Orlando Regional Medical Center and returned to work, a DEA official said.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1128132/posts

EVEN THOUGH BARNEY WAS FUNNY ON MAYBERRY RFD WITH HIS GUN SWINGING, IN REAL LIFE HE WOULD OF BEEN A DANGER TO HIMSELF AND OTHERS

[Recon by Fire]

Well I believe he still is an idiot.

[Bernard]

He passed a gun around to how many kids, and none of them pulled the trigger to see what it was like? Unbelievable.

[Recon by Fire]

I can understand how a guy might get distracted in front of an audience. For example, I'm a great driver, but sure-as-shooting, the moment when I'm trying to teach my teen age kids something while driving is the most likely moment I'm likely to make a stupid driving mistake.

Huh? If you are supposed to be a professional, then you will do the right thing and "Clearing a weapon or driving a bus is a simple task".

Just an Observation!

[Gone_Postal]

Ok class I will demonstrate what not to do .....is everyone watching..........BANG
oh $h!+ ....

[baltodog]

At least he knew his target....

My brother-in-law in Michigan has a CCW. When we were up north last summer, my sister took the kids to the beach, to the park, all over the place in his van.

When they got back, brother-in-law started bitching about my sister not leaving his "fanny-pack" at home. This ranting and raving went on for about 10 minutes when my son finally dug around their van and found the fanny-pack. He carried the fanny-pack up to the deck and tossed it to my brother-in-law.

Guess what was in it and fully loaded, with a round in the chamber? That thing sat under my seven-year-old kid's seat in the van the entire day.

Needless to say, I gave my brother-in-law a gentle, caring speech to the regards of "although I'm a big supporter of the 2nd amendment, and I wholly support an individual's right to bear and carry, people like him are who give the anti-gun people their fodder."

[FreedomPoster]

Mea culpa, DEA, was thinking BATF.

That's what I get for posting the middle of the night.

I do know better than to post before at least one cup of coffee. Really I do.

[ChefKeith]

STUPID FED TRICKS