Parents pay for juveniles' incarceration

Virginian Piloet ^ | 5/1/04 | AMY JETER

[TheSpottedOwl]

It's hard these days. You have to watch out for the recruiters. They'll sell kids a bill of goods. OTOH, I remember a time where a judge would tell a kid "Army or jail". It seemed to work out for the best.

Little gf has been taught well. Maybe it would be a good idea to have a confidential talk with his CO. They could send him on endless, pointless assignments, until she hooks up with a loco vato...if ya know what I mean?

My 9 yr old saw the pic of the liberation of that children's prison in Iraq, and now she wants to join the Army when she grows up. Okay, next year she'll want to become a ballerina ;-)

I showed a post off that link to my son. I told him that 5 minutes of fun is not worth 18+ years of misery. I know it's embarassing for mom to be giving him talks about the facts of life, but I simply cannot trust his father to give good advice. Soooo, yuck.

[RogerFGay]

It goes along with writing new laws that criminalize groups of people due to circumstances that are often beyond their control. New "social policy" defines circumstances to be criminalized and then does whatever is needed to force people into those circumstances and keep them from getting out. They build up a system of 10s of thousands of people who become dependent on maintaining the policy for their daily bread, who then continue to lobby to maintain the policy and push for more funding. Once they've force a huge number of people into their unnecessary system, they start charging them for the "service."

What I've written about the most is the child support enforcement system. Compliance with child support orders has actually dropped since the huge, expensive enforcement system began. Anyone who looks at the stats historically in an intelligent way sees that compliance rate is tied to the economy / unemployment, just like defaults on car loans, houses, and anything else. But the fed. set up a system that rewards states financially based on the amount of child support forced through the enforcement system. So states set out to force as many good payers as possible to pay through their systems, and arbitrarily increased award amounts to get more money flowing through. They also started assigning paternity by default and won't let men out of child support payments after they've proven through DNA tests that they are not the fathers.

Articles list

[pageonetoo]

"Yes, a child should be put in stocks near his school as soon as murderers condemned to death are hanged in the the public square."

A certain former prez, guilty of aiding the enemy, and treason, should have been swung from the porch of the WH. That would have proven that it wasn't "just about sex", to those unbelievers!

But, instead, we had MonicaGate, and the subsequent destruction of the Impeachment doctrine. Its just "politics as usual, by the dummys, and their minions, in the fedrul g'umt!!!

I have oft emembered Mr. Fred Capps, Dean of Men, Hew Hanover High School, Wilmington, NC. He ruled with the "Board of Education", about two feet long, with holes drilled for extra 'feeling'! Fortunately, he never swung on me! His was capital punishment, not corporal!

[AEMILIUS PAULUS]

There appears to be the start of using the criminal justice system as a source of revenue. I noted they added signs stating: "Fines Doubled In Construction Zones." The reason given as protecting the highway workers. Fair enough! Now I note these signs have mutated into "Double Fine Zone," and they are popping up everywhere.

[TheSpottedOwl]

It goes along with writing new laws that criminalize groups of people due to circumstances that are often beyond their control. New "social policy" defines circumstances to be criminalized and then does whatever is needed to force people into those circumstances and keep them from getting out.

Exactly!!! It's hard to keep up with all the new laws that get passed. For instance, Los Angeles County has just passed a law banning smoking at 4 of their beaches. It was done pretty quietly, the better to nail unsuspecting people with god knows what kind of fines. It's all about money and control. It's getting harder and harder to be a law abiding citizen. They get to you through your kids for the most part.

Speaking of the child support system, I don't think there is a way for parents to do this voluntarily anymore. Doesn't all court ordered support go through the federal system these days?

[AEMILIUS PAULUS]

Question: "Does this remind anyone of debtors prisons that out founding fathers fled from?"

Answer: No, but it does remind me of what is known as injustice. The innocent are being made to pay for the guilty. Many times family members are innocent. This reminds me of the middle ages. In those times when a crime was committed the entire village had to pay.

[TheSpottedOwl]

The board of education. I remember that, and the long rubber tipped pointer that the nuns used to rap our knuckles with. No discipline problems in Catholic school!

[RogerFGay]

Smoking Declared a Basic Human Right

[RogerFGay]

Speaking of the child support system, I don't think there is a way for parents to do this voluntarily anymore. Doesn't all court ordered support go through the federal system these days?

All child support is determined by politically determined formula. A common misconception, even after this has been in effect for 14 years, is that this only applies to welfare cases. States differ in what percent of payments are forced through their payment systems. Some have been more blatant about declaring all men "deadbeats" and all payments "collections" than others.

[RogerFGay]

I read an editorial the other day that said that fathers in jail for getting behind in court ordered child support should be forced to work as prisoners in order to pay. It reminded me of the proposal in the Senate in the 1990s (sponsored by Christopher Dodd, D-Ill.) to transform military bases that were being closed into forced labor camps for divorced and never-married fathers. What the heck, he figured, just jump straight to slave lavor camps.

[CindyDawg]

I got married when I was 16 . My MIL bad mouthed me big time. (Some deserved , most not). After 34 years we love each other and get along ok but even though you can forgive the memories remain. I told myself because of this that I would treat each girl that was special to my sons as a potential DIL and not behave the way my MIL did. I've done it so far. It's been so hard sometimes with my oldest though. He's a reformer. He has always been attracted to "bad girls" and tries to change them. I emphasize with both of you but if these girls are in your family ,life might be easier if you take them under your wing and try to fix them (don't have to wonder where my son gets it , huh?):')

[annyokie]

I think the difference is that you were in love and got married. My son and his girlfriend are in lust and shacking up. THey have no plans to marry and no plans about what they are going to do in the future, either together or individually.

To be fair, I have never met the girl since they are in California and I am in Oklahoma. I have tried to counsel my son over the phone, but he won't listen to me. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that all works out for the best no matter what happens, marriage or going their seperate ways.

[CindyDawg]

It's hard. I know. Hang in there

[CindyDawg]

Oh, and I appreciate the nice things you said but I have to be honest. I was in lust too:') Real love has to be nurtured and grown IMO

[annyokie]

LOL Me too! (I was 19 when I got married).

Thanks for posts. I'd love to give son a spanking but he's about ten inches taller than me!

[TheSpottedOwl]

Read the article. I think the difference between Norway and the US, is that there really is no private property here. Fall behind on your property taxes and see what happens.

[TheSpottedOwl]

I know about the formula that is used to determine the amount. What I'm wondering is if all cs payments must go through this system.

Unfortunately I had to go that route, and after reading all this information, I'm angry that I'm helping to feed the beast. If he hadn't used cs to beat us over the head, my attorney wouldn't have told me to go through the county to collect it :-(

I've noticed that I don't get the full amount ordered, either.

[TheSpottedOwl]

I read an editorial the other day that said that fathers in jail for getting behind in court ordered child support should be forced to work as prisoners in order to pay. It reminded me of the proposal in the Senate in the 1990s (sponsored by Christopher Dodd, D-Ill.) to transform military bases that were being closed into forced labor camps for divorced and never-married fathers. What the heck, he figured, just jump straight to slave lavor camps.

Holy Christ. Excuse the blasphemy on Sunday. "Arbeit Mach Frei". Hey if you come across this editorial, start a new thread. I think everyone should know about this, and I'd like to reply to the paper if it's recent enough.

[TheSpottedOwl]

I got married at 18, and hung in there for 19 years. I also have vowed not to be like my MIL. I actually cried when we found out she was dying, because I knew she wouldn't see a minister. Her life was unending misery, and I hope she's in a better place now. The girls took it very hard, especially the youngest one.


Annyokie has a problem though. Her son could technically be charged with statutory rape, should the relationship sour, or someone turns them in.

I'm a "fixer" too. No more. While I'm blessed with a wonderful son in law who is married to my 24 yr old, my 21 yr old is with a man who would rather get spoilers for his almighty truck, then legalize their relationship. I'm starting to think that maybe that's a good thing. She had a tough sales job, but quit a couple of days ago. My friend lives across from them and he told me that all they did is fight about the long hours she has to work. He lost another good job, and stays home with their 2 yr old. She was supporting the family, for pete's sake! Unemployment doesn't cut it.

I'm staying out of it, because I already said my piece 4 years ago. Oh, he wants another kid. Isn't that special. It's a different world these days, and the value system is different. Annyokie's son could be a victim of a scam. Anny, is she and her family legal? I don't blame you for being concerned. OK is far from CA, and it's hard to see what's really going on. Can you find a way to do a backround check?

[annyokie]

I despised my MIL, she of the white trash background who managed to marry a good man and then forgot where she came from. FYI, she never "liked" me because I was pregnant when we were married---kind of like I did that by myself, I guess, even though her son, my ex, was 28.

As far as I know Lolita's family is legal. Son musters out in June so I am biting my nails until then. I think the age of consent in CA is still 18, but I haven't lived there for some years. I asked son if here parents had emancipated Lolita and he didn't know.

I had a good friend many years ago who was sent off to youth camp for statutory rape by his later MIL when he was 18 and she, the later wife was 16. You're quite right. This ain't no joke.

My heart goes out to you and your daughter. I supported my deadbeat husband for years and put myself through college at the same time. His idiot family still thinks I'm the rascal for leaving him. They didn't have to put up with him drinking and spending like I did.

Re: Fixing:I figured if I just worked hard enough and encouraged him, he'd get off his tail and learn some responsibility. Nope. At least I became a pro at fending off the collection agents.

Best of luck to all. BTW, I always enjoy seeing you on a thread.