[oceanview]

there is alot of information that is wrong in your post:

- Sadr has nothing to do with Fallujah. Fallujah contains insurgents who are former special republican guard, iraqi secret police, foreign fighters and terrorists. Sadr's milita are all Shia.

- most of the city was "taken", the insurgents had been pushed into 2 or 3 neighboorhoods, and those were attacked with AC130s and bombs and helicopters, as well as snipers. We killed alot of enemy fighters there. I will admit, this is one piece of data sorely lacking at these press conferences - what enemy strength remains there.

- how can anyone really know whether those who murdered the contractors are still there, or are they dead?

[Gefreiter]

We can agree to disagree about Sadr's influence on Fallujans, given the increasing cooperation between Sunni and Shia factions.

Similarly, neither of us knows what really went on in the city proper, you're right. Maybe someday we'll know who had whose flag in the city at any given time.

And no, we don't know what happened to the savages who had their mutilation festival that turned into a block party. Hopefully, they're all dead. But we DO know they aren't in custody

But none of your refutations to my original post detract from my larger point, that to Fallujans the USMC was defeated by them. And not only that, they're stronger than before! With this general commanding them, they now have political legitmacy.

[Captain Kirk]

Well...the "Republican Guard" insurgents you identify should feel right at home, right now since a former "Republican Guard" general has now been in charge of the city, right?