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Then Peter came up and said to him, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?"

Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven.

I know a lot of people grow impatient with President Bush's efforts to deal with the democrats. I myself keep being reminded of Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown.

But the scripture above (Matthew 18:21-22) is how he behaves. Unlike our last Bible-toting president, President Bush actually believes what he reads in the Bible.

Jesus also told us to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.

If Bush is trying to follow Scripture, I applaud him. However, I do not agree with how he handles them.

I have the healthiest of respect for Jesus and the teachings of Scripture. I just don't agree that the passage you cite is applicable here. While we are to forgive repeatedly, that does not mean we should purposely put ourselves in the position to be repeatedly abused.

No big disagreement here, I just wanted to express my humble opinion. All Christians struggle with how to apply certain of the teachings of Jesus. That is why we are saved by grace :)

Perhaps you are right ... but deep in my heart I have a sense that if Jesus were around today, he'd have more trouble than Bush has... If he walked on water and turned water into wine, the Liberal press would report:

Jesus found unable to swim

allegations swirl of Jesus secretly making alchoholic beverages

That applies to relationships between brothers- ie, between individuals who have no higher obligation.

(Just as does the 'turn the other cheek' advice.)

But this is not an issue between individuals, this is an issue of the obligations of leaders, of government and authority, and so, officials are different from unencumbered individuals in that they are granted the authority of the sword and law OVER each individual, at least so long as they abide by the limits of their authority. The sword spoken of in Romans, the authority granted to government by God, is not merely the officials' to throw away in acts of unlimited forgiveness. As officials, they are obligated to use the sword of authority to protect what they are there to serve. They can use the sword officially and still personally forgive the person they are using it on, after all, but they are obligated to lead, not allow evil to take the bit between its teeth and so define the direction of government. But officials cannot forgive AND fail to enforce, they cannot overlook injustice done to others or ignore evildoers in the interests of 'forgiveness' - as if forgiveness somehow means the same thing as letting people continue being evil without some form of just punishment.

It is the government's - and by extension, its executive officials' duty and obligation to avenge, to enforce- it would be sinful to do otherwise. And it is morally wrong to undercut honorable officials or let them be struck or destroyed by evil simply because you as a leader confused the act of forgiveness with the less noble act of overlooking. In the process you might discover your 'divine right leader license' had been revoked because you defaulted on the agreement. It's happened before...

When officials- presidents or Senators or DOJ appointees and run of the mill bureaucrats- fail to do their jobs, or commit crimes or violate ethical standards, they must be brought to justice, and SOMEONE must do that job. In our sytem that responsibility falls on the executive branch in every case except when a President errs, in which case the responsibility lies with Congress, and when all of it fails, it's the people's job to give the culprits or their supporters the boot. No official is granted the right to 'forget' his duties and overlook ethical or criminal offenses in the name of forgiveness or any other reason- not unless God is in the habit of handing out swords just for decoration.

The 9/11 commission has forsaken its duty, if indeed some of them ever intended to carry it out in the first place. this is nothing new; the Senate Intelligence committee has also forsaken their duty, and also the Judiciary committee, and all those leakers out there whoever they are.

It's the Justice Department's job to seek justice, not to help insulate evil from exposure, not to help the President convince us to believe an illusion that the 911 commission is helping us in the WOT or 'doing its work.' It's not their job to paper over conflicts of interest, or protect officials from being held accountable for poor decisions so they can continue to be in positions that enable them to make more bad decisions. The department should not be slapped down for revealing the truth or for uncovering ethical failings and corruption, particularly in cases where national security is involved.

Unfortunately, not only have the rats been 'forgiven,' they have also enjoyed the pleasure of being granted a free pass from the avenger's sword for years and years now, and that is terribly and dangerously wrong. The stench of corruption is overwhelming but no one sems willing to clean it up, not even the buzzards. We might *gasp* offend someone if we point out that they stink...

Then Peter came up and said to him, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?" Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven.

He said that to the individual Peter, not to the governor Pontius Pilate. The job of the first was to spread the good news, the job of the latter was to govern.

; )