Court Martial in Iraq (CBS to broadcast images of US troops mistreating Iraqis...)

CBS ^

[WhistlingPastTheGraveyard]

Actually, it isn't - otherwise the US would have attacked Saudi Arabia. Iraq actually had nothing to do with 9/11.

Thanks for saving me the trip to DU for the Talking Point of the Day. Nice to see you're still hanging on to that lie like a put bull on a prime rib.

Keep it up. It's going to blow up in your face.

[schmelvin]

OK, I just saw the photos of what transpired at that prison and am absolutely disgusted! There is no excuse for this! For a moment I thought I'd been rerouted to the wrong site; that some new computer virus had sent me to twistedS&Mhomoeroticbondagefantasies.com, only to discover that this sick display of depravity was actually done (and idiotically beyond all comprehension, photographed) by animals unfit to call themselves American soldiers.

How can they possibly claim that they didn't know this was wrong? What kind of person needs a rulebook to explain to them that this is entirely unacceptable? Do they have any idea how much this could harm the war effort? How many of our soldiers could end up dying because of what they did? Do they realize how much ammo they've just handed the Leftists who are literally salivating for any opportunity to return to their Vietnam "glory days" of spitting on American soldiers? How much ammo they've just handed the venom spewing mullahs who keep calling for the destruction of the "decadent" West?

I am equally shocked by some of the posts I've read here. How can anyone excuse such blatantly perverse behavior? You know, I could understand it if our soldiers had roughed these prisoners up a bit, threatened them/ hit them. But, this? Turning a prison into a gay S&M nudist camp??? This is something I don't understand. I don't understand it at all.

[My Dog Likes Me]

The irony is that there are "disgusting" displays at college fraternity initiations throughout the USA each year that make these Iraq prison photos look like a joke.

Those prisoners were in jail for a reason. They were bad people. Criminals, all. Their public nakedness is supposedly a big "shameful" deal in the crazed Arab world (even though the men B.F. each other whenever they get the chance). With a woman present, and delivering the humiliation, it seems to be more of a psych-ops thing than anything else.

I'd still like to know her name, as I've been...very bad!

[LanaTurnerOverdrive]

Stacking men in a naked human pyramid. It seems that this excites you. You say that terrorists deserve no better....how do you know they were terrorists? Did they target civilians? No word on that yet. Who were they?

Did they fire at our troops? You don't know. If they did, which they probably did, should they still be stacked naked upon each other? Do these prisoners fall under the laws of the Geneva Convention? I don't know. Do you? Are they Unlawful Combatants? I don't know. Do you? Since the American troops responsible for these actions are being brought up on charges, I would guess no. Since our Commander In Chief calls these actions despicable, I would guess no. Since you gleefully condone these actions, to the contrary of our Commander In Chief, I would guess that you think our Commander In Chief is wrong.

We are AMERICANS. We maintain the highest standard.

Unless you are a sick, sadistic, closet-homosexual, BDSM, bed-wetting, small-handed freak....this type of treatment should be beneath you....and the US of A.

But hey....some people actually get off on seeing a bunch of naked, swarthy men all piled up.

[k2blader]

These sick soldiers weren't interrogating prisoners. They were doing perverted things to them purely for pleasure. Additionally, in doing so they've made things easier for the anti-war media and thus more difficult for our side.

[FairOpinion]

These Iraqi prisoners were those who are attacking and ambushing our soldiers. Exactly ONE article actually mentioned that in the middle, and I can't find it. All other articles carefully avoid mentioning it.

What the soldiers did was stupid, whoever took pictures and then whoever gave it to the media was even stupider. The media is not presenting all the facts, because, as I said 99.999% of the articles do NOT mention that these are a bunch of terrorists.

Now, if you are facing death every day, at the hands of these terrorists ambushing you, you see your buddies murdered by them, then you finally catch them, you are not supposed to hurt them, so you humiliate them.

I also read somewhere these soldiers were supposed to assist interrogators. How do you know, that instead of pulling out their fingernails, maybe major humiliation is one way of making them to talk.

You swallow the media spin, without even giving the benefit of at least extenuating circumstances.

Why are you so eager to condemn our solidiers?

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

Sorry, but I simply don't have the time nor interest to disabuse you of your stupifying ignorance. You should try reading and learning instead of displaying your ignorance on this forum.

[ctbritt]

you guys claiming that ONLY "terrorists" are being held in Abu Ghraib should read a little more. Sy Hersh, who is probably considered a traitor here for exposing the glorious warriors of My Lai, obtained an Army report that sparked this whole story. Major General Antonio M. Taguba, at the command of Lt. Gen. Sanchez wrote the 53-page document and found, among other abuses: "Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees; pouring cold water on naked detainees; beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair; threatening male detainees with rape; allowing a military police guard to stitch the wound of a detainee who was injured after being slammed against the wall in his cell; sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick, and using military working dogs to frighten and intimidate detainees with threats of attack, and in one instance actually biting a detainee." This story didn't come from some commie-symp lefty, but from Specialist Joseph M. Darby, an M.P. who testified against Chip Frederick. Do you guys think the Iraqis didn't know about alleged abuses at Abu Ghraib? That by broadcasting this story CBS was somehow helping the enemy? This was the gossip on Baghdad's streets for months! I talk to Iraqis in Baghdad and here in the states, and I've been hearing these rumors -- for that was all they were until now -- for a while now. Much of the resistance in Fallujah and elsewhere is because of such stories. This merely confirmed them. I'm sickened by this. My brother, father, uncle, grandfather, great-grandfather and best friend have either all served or are serving now -- in Iraq. This shames them. It should shame all of us as Americans. We supposed to be the good guys and know human decency barbarism, right from wrong.

[schmelvin]

Do you really think that FReepers are eager to condemn American soldiers? I'm certainly not, but some actions deserve condemnation. Behave like Pat Tillman and I'll praise you forever, behave like Chip Frederick and I'll demand you spend a good long time in the brig (fully clothed and with no fear of ever having a gerbil shoved up your @$$ of course, because we as Americans are [supposed to be] better than that).

Please explain what media spin we could possibly be swallowing. I saw those pictures (each one worth a thousand words, you know). I don't need for anyone to explain to me what happened there; my own eyes told me everything I need to know. You suggest we should give these miserable excuses for soldiers "the benefit of at least extenuating circumstances". My answer is, "No. There are no circumstances that justify turning a prison into a gay S&M nudist camp! None whatsoever. Period."

I'm all for taking the kid gloves off and letting our military hammer these b@$t@rds, I really am. But, it's one thing to "go Medieval" on the enemy, and quite another to "go Sodom and Gomorrah" on them. Can't you see the difference?

[FairOpinion]

It would be so much better to NOT interrogate these guys and lose hundreds of US soldiers in ambush insead, right?

These were a bunch of terrorists, who were interrogated and/or punished. Did you want them to pull fingernails instead -- people would be just as outraged. How do you think people get terrorists to talk?

And if you don't get terrorists to talk, our US soldiers, not to mention innocent civilians may actually DIE instead.

===

My post from another thread:

=====

To: Destro
"In other words - suspected terrorist detainees were being given the third degree via psychological not physical abuse to get them to break - what went wrong is that they allowed the goobers to take snapshots (I guess intelligence was not there to supervise the goobers 24/7). "

===

YOU GOT IT!!!!

It is amazing how a vast majority of FReepers fell into the trap of the liberal media.

The reason for this type of method is because public nudity is a major humiliation in Muslim societies.

""The worst thing in Arab culture is for a man to be naked in front of another man," said Gulshen Beyatli, director of Arabs Without Borders in San Francisco."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/05/01/MNG9M6E9C51.DTL

I read somewhere, unfortunately I didn't save THAT link, that prisoners were forbidden to talk with each other, and when they did anyway, this was their punishment.

From one of the incredibly few articles, which even mention who the prisoners were:

"The US military now holds several thousand prisoners at Abu Ghraib, most of them rounded up on suspicion of carrying out attacks against US-led forces."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1098210.htm

And from another article:

"60 Minutes also quoted, however, from an e-mail which Frederick reportedly sent to his family, in which he said of Iraqi prisoners: 'We've had a very high rate with our styles of getting them to break; they usually end up breaking within hours.' "

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/10521131?source=Daily

16 posted on 05/01/2004 2:08:14 PM PDT by FairOpinion (If you are not voting for Bush, you are voting for the terrorists.)


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1127975/posts?page=16#16

[victoryatallcosts]

Hersh is behind this?

That man is a traitor. Figures.

It was stupid for them to behave this way, but it should have been buried deep and covered up. CBS was unpatriotic to broadcast any of this, which might otherwise have been restricted to the level of rumour.

[aubergine]

I'm a little confused. Weren't most of the terrorists on the planes Saudi, acting on orders from an exiled Saudi prince?

For example:

http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing7/staff_statement_1.pdf

states that

"Fifteen of the 19 hijackers were Saudi nationals. There were significant security weaknesses in the Saudi government’s issuance of Saudi passports in the period when the visas to the hijackers were issued. Two of the Saudi 9/11 hijackers may have obtained their passports legitimately or illegitimately with the help of a family member who worked in the passport office."

Or am I missing something? I'm not trying to be offensive. I really can't see why Saudi wasn't at the top of the list rather than somewhere near the bottom.

[mtbopfuyn]

1) 7 soldiers to 900 prisoners is ridiculous and yes, they should have more.

2) The article states the soldiers had to break the uncooperative prisoners - um, they looked pretty cooperative in the pictures.

3) Each one should be court martialed and held to the highest standards. If the roles were reversed with our people made to make nude pyramids there would not be one on these boards that would have laughed it off as army high jinks. There is no excuse for this behavior.

[Bluntpoint]

You swallow the media spin, without even giving the benefit of at least extenuating circumstances

So far, everyone in the chain of command, from the Officers in country up to the President, have treated this event as real.

What have you seen that convinces you otherwise?

[Bluntpoint]

It is mind numbing how some of the thick-headed cretins here cannot see just how much of a blunder this is...both tactical and political!

We need to crush the enemy's spirt to fight...not strengthen it.

These photos will give many of the enemy their "Remember the Alamo" moment while in the heat of battle.

[mtbopfuyn]

Last time we heard of "torture", it was an officer forcing info out of a rebel that saved many Americans from an ambush.,/I>

But he was man enough to fess up to his misdeeds and turned himself in. He is a man, these otheres are just as bad as SH's henchmen.

[Bluntpoint]

Further, the enemy respect such actions as taken by Col. West.

Mocking naked prisoners on camera only breeds contempt.

[Mo1]

But he was man enough to fess up to his misdeeds and turned himself in

True ..

I wasn't comparing the persons .. just the way the media was reporting on what happened.

I wasn't trying to make excuses for this kind of behavior

[FairOpinion]

Read the news:


Doubts over authenticity of Iraq abuse photos: BBC

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world/view/82859/1/.html

And what I said "benefit of at least extenuating circumstances".

I also read in a few other articles, that these prisoners were terrorists who have been ambushing our soldiers, and this treatment -- which is no worse than what some liberal perverts do voluntarily -- was part of an interrogation "softening up". I personally don't want to know how they get information out of the terrorists, but want to make sure they do get everything they can, because it saves lives: our soldiers and our civilians lives.

So I am not rushing to cry in my beer over some terrorists being humiliated, to get info out of them.

These are NOT POW-d captured in legitimate battle, these are hardened terrorists, of the type who would torture and murder every one of us.

In another article I read, that the terrorists are forbidden to talk to each other -- for good reason, and the naked pyramid was their punishment for disobeying those orders.

These photos may be shocking, but would you feel happier, if they had photos of them pulling fingernails, or beating up the prisoners? Or would you prefer that they don't hurt a hair on the head of these darling terrorists, not obtain info, and let their terrorists buddies continue killing our soldiers or even us with impunity.

I thought the objective was to prevent terrorist attacks.

Note that on the pictures the prisoners are wearing hoods so as not to be embarrassed. One of my theories is that maybe these pictures were taken to help in interrogating other prisoners, by threatening them with the same thing, if they don't talk.

In another article, I read that in this prison they were very successful in getting them to break and give good info.

With terrorists, you use what works. They probably would be stoic under painful torture -- of course if anything like that got out, people would be enraged.

I guess some people would prefer antoher 9-11, and another -- and think about the chemical attack in Jordan, that could have killed 80,000 people, if they didn't foil it. That could happen here. As I said, what is your choice -- many thousands of innocent dying, or a few terrorists get somewhat "mistreated".

PERSPECTIVE.

[Bluntpoint]

Stupid is stupid. These actions were stupid.

No matter how you spin this.

Nothing! Nothing good will come from these photos! Nothing!

You are going down the DU loon drain by claiming everything is a conspiracy that does not reflect your view of the world.