More Armor Urged for U.S. Forces in Iraq

The Washington Post ^ | April 28th, 2004 | Josh White

[neverdem]

As insurgents continue to use improvised bombs to attack U.S. military vehicles in Iraq, officials are growing increasingly concerned that the lack of heavy armored vehicles is putting U.S. forces at risk.

Defense officials said yesterday they are working to increase the number of armored Humvees for Operation Iraqi Freedom but said the 2,000 specially armored trucks there account for only half the Army's estimated requirements. Standard Humvees, considered utility vehicles similar to jeeps, are too vulnerable to attack, officials said.

Gen. Richard B. Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said yesterday that every armored Humvee in the inventory has been sent to Iraq and more are being built. In a Pentagon briefing, Myers said the enemy's changing tactics have highlighted the need to shore up transport vehicles.

[Anti-Bubba182]

I don't know why the don't use the old M113 or better yet upgrade it like the Israelis.

IDF M-113 Upgrading Program

There was a Military officer on TV (Fox as I recall) that said the M113 would be a lot more survivable than the Hummer.

[Michael Barnes]

Sorry for posting this here..But I heard this song, and thought of our service members doing our biddngs overseas..

Oh, my baby, when you're older
Maybe then you'll understand
You have angels that dance around you shoulders
'Cause at times in life you need a helping hand

Oh, my baby, when you're prayin'
Leave your burden by my door
You have Jesus standing by your bedside
To keep you calm, keep you safe,
Away from harm

Worry not my daughers,
Worry not my sons
Child, when life don't seem worth livin'
Come to Jesus and let Him hold you in His arms

Oh, my baby, when you're cryin'
Never hide your face from me
I've conquered hell and driven out the demons
I have come with a life to set you free

Worry not my daughers,
Worry not my sons
Child, when life don't seem worth livin'
Come to Jesus and let Him hold you in His arms

Oh, oh
Oh, oh
Yeah, yeah, yeah

Oh, my baby, when you're dying
Believe the healing of His hand
Here in Heaven we will wait for your arrival
Here in Heaven you will finally understand
Here in Heaven we will wait for your arrival
Here in Heaven you will finally understand

Worry not my daughers,
Worry not my sons
Child, when life don't seem worth livin'
Come to Jesus and let Him hold you in His arms

God Bless our troops...

Stay safe Marines; no need to ask to do us proud; that's a given.

(author of the song is Mindy Smith)

[neverdem]

Thanks for the link. Didn't the M113's driver have a school trained MOS? I'm not saying it can't be done with "on the job training".

[Reagan is King]

How about getting rid of the Humvee in dangerous situations and getting more M113's up-armored and back in the field:

Great article about this here:

Iraqi Ambush: bad Tactics, Techniques, Procedures and Equipment

[Anti-Bubba182]

I don't know about the MOS, but the Military had a lot of the 113s and I think there are quite a few people around that can still operate them.

As the striker was being developed there was a big controvery as to whether they should upgrade the 113s rather than make Strykers. One of the arguments was that there were many 113s and people who knew how to operate and repair them.

[neverdem]

Thanks for the link.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Thanks for posting this item.

Be sure and see Link at post #5.

[skinkinthegrass]

Thanks, good info. :)

[F14 Pilot]

More AC-130s Please!

[genefromjersey]

There's been a lot of prancing and posturing about this,but,from what I understand,adding more armor means the suspension has to be rebuilt,etc.,etc.,and the failure rate goes up.

Odd ! I never hear of anyone demanding the original Jeep be armored up,but maybe that was because the Presidents in office in WWII,Korea,and the beginning of the Vietnam war were all Democrats. Could there be a connection ?

Naaah.

[blackie]

We are winning ~ the bad guys are losing ~ trolls, terrorists, democrats and the mainstream media are sad ~ very sad!

~~ Bush/Cheney 2004 ~~

[DMZFrank]

Would someone tell these guys that the HUMVEE is NOT an AFV? It is a utility truck, a replacement for the Jeep.

I was a tank commander in "Nam with the 1st Bde of the 5th Mech Inf. After initial skepticism the brass found out that heavy armor, such as 53 ton M48A3 medium tanks and light armor like M113 ACAV's could operate quite effectively in Vietnam, due in large measure to the ingenuity and innovation of the ordinary G.I. and his leaders.

The kind of fighting going on in Fallujah cries out for coordinated tank-infantry teams that can reduce the sniper nests with relatively little risk for the ground pounding grunts. High explosive rounds from 120MM tank main guns provide on station pin point immediate artillery support under the direct control of the accompanying infantry. At present there is not even much rubble to impede AFV movement.
WE did a pretty good job with tank infantry teams in Hue in '68.