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Right. Now add being a jet jockey with radar-guided AAA, SA-2s, a 2 million enemy troops directly under you, firing upward and just waiting to play with you when you eject.

I return to my core objection to the original article that started this thread; flying a jet is impressive but not to be compared with the pure, distilled guts it took to fly that jet where we actually needed it in Vietnam. George and his coterie need to focus on his record as a President and his plan for our future, not on his avoidance of a war that involved all of the good young men of our generation.

Let's not even talk about "I had better things to do" Cheney: people that avoid serving their country during a war with such elan should never hold any government office at all. It's a "guts test" and he failed.

I'm not aware that the Bush camp is pushing his time in the Guard. The only group that is bringing Bush's service record (as well as Cheney's lack of one) up are the Kerry camp, the DNC and the rest of the Democrat mob commonly known as "the media". You seem to be able to respect only one level of military service: actual combat. Same for courage. From reading your posts, nothing less that actual bullets flying at you is courageous enough. Anything "less" seems to be unworthy of your time. Is true of your vote as well?

The point of this thread, to me at least, seems to be to refute the notion that Bush wasn't AWOL, and not that his level of service meets with your approval. You can belittle him if you like with your "my service was tougher than his" attitude, but from where I sit it just makes you look jaded. I thank you for your service to our country and I'm sorry you didn't get the respect you deserved when you came back home, but I hope that you can some day get over it.

It seems to me that Bush puts himself on the line each and every day with the political decisions he makes. He doesn't stick his finger in the air to see if he has the right opinion and then do a poll to see what tie to wear like the last guy, a draft dodging molly coddled bed wetter, philanderer.

With all due respect for a Marine, of course you can always point to circumstances more dangerous. There is always someone who had it tougher and risked more, but that isn't a legitimate basis on which to diminish Bush's record.

Being a fly boy isn't easy.

Bush's "Coterie?" - I prefer to leave the class warfare to the Dems.

Bush didn't raise the issue of service. Mr. Kerry did. He wanted to base his entire campaign on being a decorated war hero, thinking this would overcome his "Genghis Khan" protest and a weak voting record on defense/intelligence.