Al Qaeda-Iraqi relationship proven beyond any doubt.

ABC World News Now | 4/27/2004

[JohnGalt]

Do you believe Saddam was behind WTC I and 9/11 like Laurie Mylroie does?

[alrea]

I was interested to hear that the leader of the Al Qaeda cell organizing the explosive and chemical attack on the Jordanian security headquarters and the American Embassy in Jordan state that he received his training from Al-Zawahiri in Iraq, prior to the fall of Afghanistan. This training was in the use of weapons of mass destruction using easily obtained chemicals.

Could the US have intelligence showing that the weapons were being obtained in Iraq from the UN?

[Dr. Frank fan]

P.S. After giving it some thought I wanted to come back here and say that you do have a point: the article above does not add to the data which proves that Saddam was aiding "Al Qaeda" per se. It adds to the data which proves that Ansar al-Islam was a subsidiary of, or at least partially co-opted by, "Al Qaeda".

To be more explicit: a case that Saddam was linked to "Al Qaeda" which used the Ansar al-Islam connection, would have to be based on two pillars:

1. That Saddam was supporting Ansar al-Islam.

2. That Ansar al-Islam was a subsidiary of "Al Qaeda", or at least had been infiltrated by, or co-opted by, "Al Qaeda" operatives to serve more "Al Qaeda"-centric ends.

The article above does not support #1, but we know it from other sources, including the link I gave you and the Zarqawi-in-Baghdad for medical treatment story.

What the article *does* support is pillar #2. This is because, a year or two ago, when people wanted to dispute #2 they'd say stuff like "it's just a local jihadi home-grown organization, there's no evidence they're part of 'Al Qaeda', they just care about fighting the Kurds..." etc. Even Zarqawi's "membership in" Al Qaeda used to be disputed (hopefully only a very few lunkheads would dispute it now...).

Yet here is a guy who's bona fide "Al Qaeda", who participated in an "Al Qaeda" style attack in Jordan, and yet says that he trained at (we are all presuming) the (supposedly unconnected to "Al Qaeda" according to previous talking-points) Ansar al-Islam camp with Zarqawi, in Iraq. That shows that Ansar al-Islam was indeed connected to "Al Qaeda".

As if there were any doubt!

Because the connection between AaI and AQ has not been in much doubt for quite a long time to begin with. So you may be, in the end, correct to downplay the significance of this article - because it proves something we *already knew*. :-) Namely that AaI was an "AQ" subsidiary. Pillar #2 is already proven.

If you doubt that Saddam was funding/supporting AaI for his own purposes, that's your right, and you can safely look at this article and say it doesn't help prove Pillar #1, I guess. However, I still believe Pillar #1 to be true, based on the pattern of other data we have about these matters. And you may too if you take a look at the info.

But if Pillar #1 and Pillar #2 are both true, then we're done, we've got the Saddam/AQ link. At this point I suspect that the only real question for each individual is when he decides that the preponderance of evidence forces him to acknowledge it, and some may do so a bit later than others, that's all ;-) Best,

[Redbob]

"This confession will be dismissed as forced under torture."

I certainly hope that's how the confession was obtained.
Maybe a little discreet maiming, too?

[satchmodog9]

I'm waiting for that. The left will claim W had the weapons planted.

[Excuse_My_Bellicosity]

...received his training from Al-Zawahiri in Iraq, prior to the fall of Afghanistan.

This can't be, Bush just has an Iraq fetish. CNN said so.

[GOPJ]

bump

[WOSG]

"Do you believe Saddam was behind WTC I and 9/11 like Laurie Mylroie does? "

Those are 2 separate attacks.

we've already discussed 9/11.

Several points of evidence saddam / Iraq/ IIS was behind 1993 WTC attack, wouldnt you agree?

[MNJohnnie]

Who needs facts? We've got a quick statement from TV misunderstood by the original poster but you run with it, okay

NO, we actually have a taped confession from a terrorist captured with the weapons. But keep hiding your head in the sand, Deluded United Troll. Just cause YOU refuse to face up to the unpleasant facts doesn't mean we should.

[MNJohnnie]

stated that he received his training from Al-Zawahiri in Iraq, prior to the fall of Afghanistan.

How can this be. Saddam hated them.

Any proof to back up this statement?

[MNJohnnie]

in Jordan stated that he received his training from Al-Zawahiri in Iraq, prior to the fall of Afghanistan. is NOT proof in anyway, it's hearsay and one man's testimony that he got trained by some other guy in someplace

No it is TESTIMONEY, not HEARSAY. But let us approach this from the OTHER side. What WOULD be proof to you?????

[Cronos]

What WOULD be proof to you?????

Evidence of alQ training camps in Irq BEFORE 9/11. We already have evidence of alQ camps in Afgh before 9/11. We have proof of terror training camps in Paksitan before and after 9/11.
I'm not disputing the fact that we were right to go to Irq, but to stop a dangerous dictator and to liberate the people of irq. Bandying about stuff like Saddy was supporting alQ before 9/11 weakens our case by clouding the main issue.

[piasa]

[How do you get through to libs and Euroweinies that they -- Islamist fanatics -- are out to kill as many people as possible?]

Tell them the terrorists are both pro-choice and pro euthanasia but differ from liberals and Euroweenies only in that they prefer somewhat later late term abortions than do liberals, and somewhat earlier euthanasias than Euroweenies, though the terrorist will happily accept any deaths also considered acceptable by liberals and Euroweenies, too. The folks you want to inform should get the picture.

[piasa]

Ansar al Islam, is of course, one of the many terrorist group smaking up al Qaeda's Terrorist International, aka "Jihad Against Christians and Jews"; the group has been funded, supplied and used by Iraq for some time in its fight against PUK, a common enemy.:

* Osman Ali : a captured Ansar al Islam member; 18-years-old. Ali was part of an Ansar suicide-bomb cell that Abdul Jaber commanded. Ali said he was a member of Ansar al-Islam's Al-Aqsa Battalion's six-member group of would-be suicide bombers. Ali was arrested by the PUK (Patriotic Union of Kurdistan) six months ago after he was to carry out a suicide-bombing mission but lost his nerve. He told his story to the Star in the Sulaymania prison in northeastern Iraq, part of an autonomous Kurdish region kept out of Saddam's control by patrolling U.S. and British warplanes. During a two-hour interview, he told a detailed story of how he joined Ansar at the age of 15, how he trained to be a suicide bomber, and how he finally lost his nerve. Both Osman Ali and Didar Khaled Khedr say two former Iraqi intelligence agents are among Ansar's leaders - Abu Zurbeh and Abu Wahil. Ali said Abu Zurbeh refers to Saddam as "Uncle Saddam." Ali said he joined Ansar in April, 2000. He said he received 45 days of training in using AK-47 rifles, machine guns and grenades. Then he was chosen to be part of a six-man suicide bomb squad. "They choose the most religious fundamentalists among us to do that," he said. His suicide bombers course was held in Sergat village and lasted 10 days. Ali said the class listened to taped speeches by Abu Qatada, a Palestinian recently arrested in London and detained under Britain's anti-terrorism law. The young bombers were also told of a paradise filled with 72 virgins waiting for them, Ali said. In case religious fervour wanes in the moment of truth, Ali said bombers are given a drug in pill form that "makes you euphoric." Ali said he proudly graduated from the course and was chosen to carry out a suicide attack inside a PUK militia post. The plan was to simply walk in and pull a rod that would detonate four grenades hidden under his sleeve. He said he signed a declaration saying he was ready to blow himself up and Ansar also taped his statement on video. But he then described a torturous process of changing his mind three or four times, encouraged by friends not to do it and Ansar members to plow ahead. -"Canadian man called key in Iraq terror cell Iraq terror cell links Al Qaeda, Saddam," Sandro Contenta in Sulaymania, Iraq Toronto Star NEWS; Pg. A01 February 26, 2003 Wednesday Ontario Edition (it was abridged) see also The Hamilton Spectator for the unabridged version

1999 : (IRAQI INTELLIGENCE OFFICER LATIF aka ABU WA'IL IS IN AFGHANISTAN) Sa'adoon Mohammed Abdul Latif, or Abu-Wa'il, an Iraqi intelligence officer, first visited Afghanistan in 1999. - "U.S. negotiates trade of terror suspects," By Eli J. Lake, UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL via The Washington Times, May 9, 2003, http://washingtontimes.com/world/20030509-22822443.htm

*****

Not to mention that al Qaeda leaders have been present in Iraq at the invitation of the Iraqi Intelligence service YEARS before 9/11... and the Iraqi government footed their hotel bills.

[Cronos]

The story about Osman Ali says clearly:

Both Osman Ali and Didar Khaled Khedr say two former Iraqi intelligence agents are among Ansar's leaders

The second story about Abu-Wa'il is not substantial enough to make any judgement about.

You're last statement that alQ leaders have been present in irq before 9/11 is not proven in any case. The main terror cells in Irq between the Gulf wars was in Kurdish territory.

Then again, we have substantial proof that alQ was funded and supported by Saudi A, Yemen, Pak.

[piasa]

... Italian officials say that Mr al-Mamouri held the rank of general in the Iraqi secret service, and from 1982 to 1990 worked in the Special Operations Branch forging Baghdad’s links with Islamic fundamentalist groups in Pakistan, Afghanistan, the Gulf and Sudan. He was transferred to his “teaching duties” in 1998, although all the Iraqi Embassy will say of his sudden departure is that “he had money problems”. ...

... Desperate for allies after the Gulf War, Saddam sent Faruq Hijazi, his secret service director, to Sudan in 1994, where bin Laden then had his headquarters. The meetings were brokered by Hassan al-Tourabi, the Sudanese Muslim leader, who was bin Laden’s protector. The Sudanese belatedly offered to show the CIA all they knew about bin Laden and his visits, to ingratiate themselves back into the international fold, but the Americans scorned the approach. ...

... US Intelligence says Saddam cultivated the relationship with al-Qaeda at the start of 1998 by inviting the man regarded as bin Laden’s deputy — Ayman Zawahiri — to dine with Taha Yasin Ramadan, the Iraqi Vice-President. That was such a success that a delegation from al-Qaeda attended Saddam’s birthday celebrations that April, and it was during this trip that arrangements were made for bin Laden recruits to receive the sort of advanced weapons training they could not get in their camps in Afghanistan. --"Hijacker 'given anthrax flask by Iraqi agent'," BY DANIEL MCGRORY, The London Times, SATURDAY OCTOBER 27 2001

And don't notice Hikmat Shakir behind the curtain...

[Cronos]

Experts point out that Saddam, a secular Iraqi nationalist who refuses to rule by the Muslim religious law of Sharia, is a natural enemy of Osama bin Laden.

As for bin Laden, he has vowed to topple Arab leaders like Saddam who don't embrace Islamic fundamentalism.

"Osama bin Laden hates Saddam Hussein and considers him an infidel," said Bari Atwan, editor of the London-based Arabic newspaper Al Quds . He says bin Laden was even ready to help liberate Kuwait when it was invaded by Iraq in 1990.

[BigSkyFreeper]

al-Zarqawi is probably at the center of alot of what's going on in Iraq (roadside bombs, ambushes). Al-Sadr is too, but he's trying to win the hearts and minds of the people through propaganda so he can easily get a chair at the table of power, possibly the head chair. They each have a goal in mind, al-Zarqawi is targeting coalition forces, and al-Sadr is targeting the hearts and minds of Iraqi citizens.

[piasa]

You're last statement that alQ leaders have been present in irq before 9/11 is not proven in any case.

That statement stems from Iraqi documents and financial statements including billing and receipts for the hotel stay, as well as live testimony.

What do you expect as proof, nothing less than bin Laden's fingerprints on Hussein's bedroom door?

[BigSkyFreeper]

Whether there was a link or not is not the point. We're not fighting a war on OBL, or a war on Al-Qaeda, or a War On Iraq, we're fighting a...

WAR ON TERROR

As Bush said "wherever it lurks". No matter how many times you say it or how big you make the font or show satellite photos of terrorist training camps or barrels upon barrels of VX nerve gas in some warehouse somewhere in Syria, some people just won't get it.