U.S. Bishops' Task Force to Discuss Pro-Abortion Politicians In Wake of Card. Arinze's Comments

zenit.org ^ | 4/26/04 | zenit.org

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

(BTW, when was the last time a major party nominated a pro-murder Catholic for President?).

That in itself should be of grave concern to the bishops and to the Vatican. Catholics are called to set a moral example for others. We are called to chart a course for life and for a civilization of love. It is the divine duty of Catholics to prevent and oppose the slaughter of innocent life. Anyone who publicly refuses thi udty is NOT a Catholic. John Kerry is no longer a Catholic. Kick him out. They should do this publicly with a lot of noise.

Bishops, please cleanse our church of this demonic rot !!!

[sinkspur]

So, essentially you are saying, 'do nothing'.

Deny Kerry the Eucharist on the first day of Advent, 2004.

But, not during this election season.

Do you want to see Kerry elected on the back of a delayed action by the American bishops?

[narses]

Cute Deacon, dishonest, but cute.

You neglected the REST of the story:

"Forgotten are the facts that Killea's win was no landslide, she outspent her opponent nearly three-to-one, and the college of bishops showed little collegiality toward Bishop Maher at the time."

[lnbjohnson]

This kind of thing, if not handled deftly, has a way of backfiring.
Care to share examples of Bishops with backbones that have had their efforts 'backfire'?

The first example to come to mind would be Pope Leo X vs. Marin Luther.

[Fifth Business]

I think this falls under the "be careful what you ask for" category. What happens when some bishop somewhere in the world expands on this to forbid communion to politicians who support the war in Iraq? ...or to anyone speaking ill of their bishop? Will you be as supportive? Will you stop receiving communion? Not long ago to was almost impossible for a Catholic to get elected in this country because of the fear that they would be "taking orders from Rome." If the Vatican wins on this issue, it won't be the last marching order to elected officials. Do we really want some bishop in Italy or France or Germany tell our officials how to vote?

I agree with you here. A politician should be able to live a Christian lifestyle but not legislate Christianity. For example, a politician may believe masturbation is sin but not believe in passing a law against it.

On a separate topic---what Bible are these people reading to get these ideas? Jesus made a point of welcoming sinners; Judas was invited to the Last Supper. Using communion as a weapon is about as unchristian as you can get.

You are off-target here. Jesus called people to repentance, not to continue in their sins. And St. Paul indicates coming to the Lord's table unworthily has spiritual consequences. Communion should only be offered to those in good standing with the church. If someone is harboring sin they should abstain. If the clergy know of unrepented sin in someone's life, they should not offer communion to the person.

[sinkspur]

After the election, Bentley told the San Diego Union-Tribune that Maher's letter to Killea made the difference. "In one letter," the defeated candidate said, "he created an instant international celebrity and a martyr."

[narses]

Yours is one view, Deacon Sinkspur's the other (and clearly the one being used by the leaders of the USCCB). It looks like the Vatican is getting ready to bring the USCCB to heel over this issue. (Or is that heal?)

[don-o]

JFKerry's PUBLIC taking of a heretical and blasphemous psuedo-communion at the AME Church the Sunday before Easter should have been enough for them.

Yep.

[Polycarp IV]

The only issue the bishops have harped on in the last ten years is abortion

The bishops spend far more time harping on "peace and justice" and capital punishment and other democrat party issues than abortion, and you know it, Sink. This statement of yours is nonsense. Go scan through the USCCB documents and see.

Alphabetical Listing
of Statements & Speeches

Chronological Listing
Subject Listing

• 1999 Letter to the Elderly from Pope John Paul II
  October 1999
• 1999 Labor Day Statement
  September 1999
• 2001 Labor Day Statement
  August 2001
• Abortion and the Supreme Court: Advancing the Culture of Death
  November 2000
• Abp. McCarrick's Latest Statement on East Timor
  September 1999
• Address by the Most Reverend Jean-Louis Tauran on the State of Jerusalem
  March 1999
• A Call to Solidarity with Africa
  November 2001
• A Fair and Just Workplace: Principles and Practices
  October 1999
• A Pastoral Message: Living With Faith and Hope After September 11
  November 2001
• Apostolic Exhortation of the Holy Father, “Pastores Gregis” (.pdf format 11.6MB)
  October 2003
• Archbishop McCarrick's Statement on the Congo
  October 1999
• Asian & Pacific Presence: Harmony in Faith
  November 2001
• Between Man and Woman: Questions and Answers About Marriage and Same-Sex Unions
  November 12, 2003
• Bishop Fiorenza's Statement on Iraq
  November 1999
• Bishop Glynn's Address to Congress
  November 1999
• Bishop's Testimony Before Senate Judiciary Committee Subcommittee on Immigration
  August 1999
• Blessings of Age: A Pastoral Message on Growing Older Within the Faith Community
  November 1999
• Built of Living Stones: Art, Architecture, and Worship
  November 2000
• Bull of Indiction of the Great Jubilee of the Year 2000 "Incarnationis Mysterium"
  November 1998
• Called and Gifted for the Third Millennium
  September 1995
• Charter of the Rights of the Family
  October 1983
• Civility in Media
  June 2000
• Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith from Pope John Paul II
  August 2000
• Critical Decisions: Genetic Testing and its Implications
  March 1996
• Diocesan Financial Issues
  November 2002
• Encuentro and Mission: A Renewed Pastoral Framework for Hispanic Ministry
  November 2002
• Encyclical on the Eucharist, "Ecclesia de Eucharistia"
  December 2002
  

  Spanish Version

• Essential Norms for Diocesan/Eparchial Policies Dealing with Allegations of Sexual Abuse of Minors by Priests, Deacons, or Other Church Personnel
  December 2002
• Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Health Care Services
  June 15, 2001
• Everyday Christianity: To Hunger and Thirst for Justice
  November 1999
• Ex Corde Ecclesiae: An Application to the United States
  June 2000
• Faithful Citizenship: A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility
  September 2003
• Final: Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People
  June 2002
• Follow the Way of Love: A Pastoral Message to Families
  September 1993
• "For I Was Hungry and You Gave Me Food"
  November 12, 2003
• From Alien to American: Acceptance Through Citizenship
  May 1998
• The Gift of Authority: An Agreed Statement by the Second Anglican-Roman Catholic International Commission
  May 1999
• Global Climate Change: A Plea for Dialogue, Prudence, and the Common Good
  June 15, 2001
• A Good Friday Appeal to End the Death Penalty
  April 1999
• Guidelines Concerning the Academic Mandatum
  June 15, 2001
• Guidelines for Concelebration of the Eucharist
  November 12, 2003
• The Harvest of Justice is Sown in Peace
  November 1993
• Holy Father's Remarks
  November 1999
• In All Things Charity: A Pastoral Challenge for the New Millennium
  November 1999
• In Support of Catechetical Ministry
  June 2000
• A Jubilee Call for Debt Forgiveness
  April 1999
• Labor Day Statement 2000
  August 2000
• Lay Ecclesial Ministry: The State of the Questions
  September 1999
• Lenten Message Of His Holiness Pope John Paul II - 1999
  October 1998
• Letter from Bishop Fiorenza Concerning Lebanon & The Peace Process
  March 2000
• Letter of His Holiness Pope John Paul II to Artists
  April 1999
• Letter of His Holiness Pope John Paul II to Priests for Holy Thursday 2002
  March 2002
• Letter on PNTR for China
  April 2000
• Letter of Pope John Paul II to Priests for Holy Thursday
  March 2000
• Letter of the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II Concerning Pilgrimage to the Places Linked to the History of Salvation
  June 1999
• Letter on Toxic Waste in Phillipines
  July 2000
• Letter on Cuba Sanctions
  May 2000
• Letter to Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem
  November 2000
• Letter to President Bush on Escalating Violence in the Holy Land
  April 2002
• Living the Gospel of Life
  November 1998
• March 2000 Statement on Colombia, His Eminence Bernard Cardinal Law
  March 2000
• A Matter of the Heart : A Statement on the Thirtieth Anniversary of Roe v. Wade
  November 2002
• Message from the Bishops of the Church in America
  February 1999
• Message of His Holiness Pope John Paul II for the Celebration of the World Day of Peace
  January 1, 2004
• Message of His Holiness Pope John Paul II for the Celebration of the World Day of Peace
  January 2000
• Message of His Holiness Pope John Paul II for World Migration Day
  November 1999
• NCCB Resolution "Renewing U.S. Leadership in Refugee Protection"
  June 20, 2001
• NCCB/USCC President's Statement on Iraq
  November 1998
• NCCB/USCC President's Statement on Kosovo
  June 1999
• New Encyclical on the Eucharist, "Ecclesia de Eucharistia"
  

  Spanish Version
  April 2003

• Our Hearts Were Burning Within Us: A Pastoral Plan for Adult Faith Formation in the United States
  November 1999
• Pastoral Plan for Pro-Life Activities: A Campaign in Support of Life
  
• A Place at the Table: A Catholic Recommitment to Overcome Poverty and to Respect the Dignity of All God's Children
  November 2002
• Pope John Paul II on Liturgical Participation
  March 1997
• Pope John Paul II's Letter to Priests for Holy Thursday 1999
  March 1999
• Pope John Paul II's Statement on Immigration
  October 1995
• Pope John Paul II's World Day of Peace Message
  December 2001
• Popular Devotional Practices: Basic Questions and Answers
  November 12, 2003
• Post-Synodal Apostolic Exhortation Ecclesia in America
  January 1999
• Post-Synodal Apostolic Exhortation Ecclesia in Europa of His Holiness Pope John Paul II
  June 2003
• Presidential Address by Bishop Wilton Gregory, Bishop of Belleville
  November 2002
• Presidential Address of Bishop Fiorenza
  November 1999
• The Priest, Pastor and Leader of the Parish Community   (Spanish)
  November 2002
• The Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Sacrament of the Eucharist: Basic Questions and Answers
  June 15, 2001
• Remarks about the Catholic Campaign for Human Development
  October 1979
• Responsibility, Rehabilitation, and Restoration: A Catholic Perspective on Crime and Criminal Justice
  November 2000
• Resolution on Immigration Reform
  November 2000
• Resolution on the Israeli-Palestinian Crisis
  June 15, 2001
• Returning to the Path of Peace in the Middle East
  November 2000
• Rosary of the Virgin Mary - Rosarium Virginis Mariae (Spanish Text)
  October 2002
• Sharing Catholic Social Teaching: Challenges and Directions
  June 1999
• Socially Responsible Investment Guidelines
  November 12, 2003
  
• Sons and Daughters of the Light: A Pastoral Plan for Ministry with Young Adults
  November 1996
• Speeches from St. Louis Papal Visit
  January 1999
• Statement of Cardinal Pio Laghi to President George W. Bush
  March 5, 2003
• Statement of Most Reverend Wilton Gregory, Bishop of Belleville, President, U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops
  November 12, 2003
• Statement on the Abduction of Bishop Jorge Jiménez Carvajal
  November 2002
• Statement on African Refugees
  August 2000
• Statement on East Timor
  June 1999
• Statement of Episcopal Commitment
  November 2002
• Statement on Iraq
  February 2003
• Statement on Iraq
  November 2002
• Statement on Israeli-Palestinian Violence
  USCCB Administrative Committe, March 13,2002
• Statement on Kenya
  U.S. Catholic Bishops Delegation, April 5, 2001
• Statement on Kosovo
  March 1999
• Statement on President Clinton's Announcement of Debt Relief for Poor Countries
  October 1999
• Statement on Return of Kosovar Refugees
  June 1999
• Statement on Sudan
  U.S. Catholic Bishops Delegation, April 5, 2001
• Statement on the Approaching Execution of Timothy McVeigh
  Cardinal Roger Mahony and Cardinal William Keeler, May 2, 2001
• Statement on the Cologne Initiative from the G-8 Summit
  June 1999
• Statement on the Kosovo Refugee Crisis
  April 1999
• Statement on the Scheduled Execution of Timothy Mcveigh
  Archbishop Daniel M. Buechlein, OSB, May 2, 2001
• Statement of U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops' President on the Execution of Timothy McVeigh
  Most Reverend Joseph A. Fiorenza, June 11, 2001
• Stewardship and Young Adults
  November 12, 2003
  
• Strangers No Longer: Together on the Journey of Hope
  January 2003
• Strengthening the Bonds of Peace: A Pastoral Reflection on Women in the Church and in Society
  September 1994
• Sudan's Cry for Peace
  November 2000
• Tertio Millennio Adveniente, Apostolic Letter
  November 1994
• U.S. Bishops Thank Pope for Concern After Terrorist Attack
  September 2001
• USCC/CRS Joint Statement on Clinton Proposal
  October 1999
• Walk in the Light: A Pastoral Response to Child Sexual Abuse
  September 1995
• Welcome and Justice for Persons with Disabilities
  November 1998
• Welcoming the Stranger Among Us: Unity in Diversity
  November 2000
• When I Call for Help: A Pastoral Response to Domestic Violence Against Women
  November 2002
• Your Family and Cyberspace
  June 2000

January 14, 2004 Copyright © by United States Conference of Catholic Bishops

[narses]

Facts are your friend Deacon. Once more, the THREE facts you tried to ignore:

Killea's win was no landslide, ...

Kerry has NO CHANCE of a landslide.

...she outspent her opponent nearly three-to-one, ...

GW can and will outspend Monsiuer Carrie.

...and the college of bishops showed little collegiality toward Bishop Maher at the time."

And the Bishops are being told by ROME to get a backbone. Your one, puny little example crumbles Deacon.

[narses]

AFAIK, Monsieur Carrie is not trying to create a new church, but if he wants to, let him go.

[sinkspur]

My puny little fact is the opinion of the losing candidate.

The fact that Killea won is proof enough that Maher's action was ineffective, and very likely provided the margin of victory.

It certainly didn't help, did it?

[sinkspur]

What are the American bishops known for, in the minds of the electorate?

Certainly not for immigration reform.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

The godless moral depravity and decadence of American culture already produced eight years of the clinton madness. I may happen again. What should not happen is the Catholic Church collapsing on such a grave issue. Kerry may win anyway. But KICK HIM OUT. Don't let him be "Catholic" and pro-death. He's a kook and a moral moron. A barbarian.

The bishops should also investigate and render a canonical judgment on this Skull&Bones cult he belongs to at Yale. It meets the usual criteria on dangerous, anti-Christian secret societies which promote a secular humanist totalitarian anti-Catholic ideology.

[Tench_Coxe]

"Deny Kerry the Eucharist on the first day of Advent, 2004.

But, not during this election season.

Do you want to see Kerry elected on the back of a delayed action by the American bishops?"

I would rather see the American bishops follow Church teaching and the Vatican ( the right and moral thing ).
Kerry has been notified to cease his actions, and is obviously unrepentant. What compounds this is the obvious attempt to drum up support by pointing the finger at those 'evil, mean bishops ', who happen to be the shepherds of the Church of which Kerry claims to be a devout member.

I suspect that even non-Catholics would understand if the bishops did the right thing.

[narses]

"Did his refusal not backfire?"

Nope, not really. But more important, did the Sacramento Bishop create a backlash favoring Grey Davis? Your claim is that denial will create a backlash, the Bishop took a very public and principled stand (thank God for faithful Bishops) and the public accepted that. It was over ABORTION Deacon, in California, a battleground state. Your 'analysis', staked on a decades old legislative race, pales when compared to a statewide, recent race.

This is a critical debate and I appreciate very much your clearly mainstream view. The FACTS though are against you.

[sinkspur]

The bishops should also investigate and render a canonical judgment on this Skull&Bones cult he belongs to at Yale. It meets the usual criteria on dangerous, anti-Christian secret societies which promote a secular humanist totalitarian anti-Catholic ideology.

It's a goofy college club.

You're a bit of a conspiracist, aren't you, what with your major suspicions of Masons and other like groups?

[sinkspur]

I suspect that even non-Catholics would understand if the bishops did the right thing.

Are you willing to bet a hundred dollars on that, tonight?

I'm not.

[B Knotts]

Did his refusal not backfire?

Whose refusal? Certainly not Bishop Wiegand, which was more a rebuke than a refusal. Even Bishop Maher's refusal may not have actually helped the winning candidate much.

But, you see, I'm not looking at this from a political perspective.

What I am concerned about is this ongoing refusal of the U.S. bishops to simply teach the Catholic faith. When they have to have a committee to decide if one can be pro-abortion and still be admitted to Holy Communion, it sends a confusing message to those who would be tempted to think that one can be Catholic and pro-abortion.

It may cause some who may lean in that direction to adhere to groups like CFFC, CTA or FutureChurch, because they aren't hearing a clear and unequivocal message that such groups are outside the Church.

I only ask the bishops to have the same ability to enforce discipline as they show with traditional Catholics who dare prefer the ancient Order of Mass. They never seem to have a problem with "pastoral concerns" in that area.

[B Knotts]

Lay Ecclesial Ministry: The State of the Questions

Grrrrr.